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Old 06-09-2008, 11:33 AM   #91
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the main theory of his "utopia plan" is to have all the rulers outsted and set of government on the concept of the United States with one person leading the entire continent.

wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!!

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:06 PM   #92
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wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!!

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!
I didn't say it...it's Bonos plan!
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:08 PM   #93
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wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!!

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!
and the fact that Africa is made up of ...., different cultural entities, different languages...

^ So is the US.

And I didn't say or suggest the proposed plan...it's Bonos theory!
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:07 PM   #94
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No one is talking about kicking out all the African leaders and making the whole continent one country. This is not what Bono is saying. Of course I am not in his head and cannot know exactly what he has in mind, but it seems obvious he is refering to a very important historical and political movement, namely pan-africanism, which encompasses a large range of ideas and opinions about greater political and economic, as well as cultural, integration among African countries. Integration does not necessarily equal complete loss of national sovereignty. And once again, this is NOT 'Bono's idea', he is merely giving credence to an idea that has been around for decades in and out of Africa and will continue to be in a world were increased regional cooperation and integration is becoming the norm.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:17 PM   #95
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Yep.

Thank god for not letting the people decide.

Thank god for having a political elite that will decide things for us!

(Did you even think before you posted the utter drivel that you posted? )
how is letting the people we elect do their business equal to not letting "the people" decide?
these referendum also have 30% of the population voting while the other 70% was too busy watching reruns of Knight Rider

you are one offensive dude though
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:28 PM   #96
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how is letting the people we elect do their business equal to not letting "the people" decide?
these referendum also have 30% of the population voting while the other 70% was too busy watching reruns of Knight Rider

you are one offensive dude though
Ah, another Eurofederalist.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:44 PM   #97
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Ah, another Eurofederalist.
i thought, you being a finance guy and all, you would acknowledge the need for a united europe if any of the european countries wants to play a roll in world economics in years to come

my post was more focussed on the ludicrous situation that we elect people who spend years preparing a plan that gets veto'd by 25% of a population who don't know what they talk about
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:56 PM   #98
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i thought, you being a finance guy and all, you would acknowledge the need for a united europe if any of the european countries wants to play a roll in world economics in years to come

The politically united Europe that the federalists wish for has nothing got to do with free trade or economic power, really and truly, absolutely nothing.

But, for the sake of argument, let's look at this idea you have that European countries must sacrifice their sovereignty in order to compete economically. Well, we don't have to look too far to find a small country that does alright for itself economically without feeling any need to be part of a vast political block - I speak of Switzerland. Further afield, what about Canada? New Zealand? Australia? Malaysia? All successful, small to smallish countries that don't feel the need to be part of a huge unaccountable bureaucratic powerbloc.

Incidentally, in my country, even the pro-Treaty of Lisbon campaigners don't tend to use the political and economic power go hand in hand argument, because they know that it is fundamentally weak.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:05 PM   #99
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The politically united Europe that the federalists wish for has nothing got to do with free trade or economic power, really and truly, absolutely nothing.
unity is about getting a truck to go from our factory in Breda, The Netherlands to Barcelona, Spain without it having to deal with 3 kinds of legislation

it's about me sending invoices out to Rumania, Italy and Belgium and not having to deal with different legislation on what information should appear on the invoice

it's about a company not needing to fill in 4 different form to get their VAT back just because they deal with several countries

and to create this unity you need political unity
the ghost stories of having to give up your national identity are ridiculous and have no actual foundation whatsoever
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:58 PM   #100
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unity is about getting a truck to go from our factory in Breda, The Netherlands to Barcelona, Spain without it having to deal with 3 kinds of legislation

it's about me sending invoices out to Rumania, Italy and Belgium and not having to deal with different legislation on what information should appear on the invoice

it's about a company not needing to fill in 4 different form to get their VAT back just because they deal with several countries

and to create this unity you need political unity
the ghost stories of having to give up your national identity are ridiculous and have no actual foundation whatsoever
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:03 PM   #101
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the road to hell ... ????

could you not at least reply with some sort of poor arguement?
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:21 PM   #102
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Great news the Irish shot down the treaty. Brussels will rejig a few words here and there and it be back again in 2 years.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:32 PM   #103
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the road to hell ... ????

could you not at least reply with some sort of poor arguement?
Jesus H. Christ.

Your post above claiming that a free trade zone requires political union is simply TRIPE, TRIPE, TRIPE. If anything, the opposite is the case.

There is no necessity whatever for political union. It is quite simply wrong and false to argue that a free trade area necessitates a political union. It is utterly wrongheaded and Eurofederalist NONSENSE.

The only thing that creates wealth is free markets, and the entrepreneurship that flourishes within free markets. That is the only thing that works, and provably works.

That is all.

We, in Ireland, don't want a Eurofederalist union.

Your people don't want it either, much as you (rather disgracefully) dismiss the views of THE MAJORITY OF THE DUTCH ELECTORATE THAT CHOOSE TO EXERCISE THEIR VOTE.

The French don't want it either - they voted no too.

And the British people, independent spirits that they are, sure as FUCK don't want it. That's why their coward spineless government is too scared to even give them a vote.

Now, I ask myself (shouting in the wilderness, no doubt):

WHAT.
PART.
OF.
NO.
DO.
THE.
EUROFEDERALISTS.
NOT.
UNDERSTAND?
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:39 PM   #104
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And the British people, independent spirits that they are, sure as FUCK don't want it. That's why their coward spineless government is too scared to even give them a vote.
QFT.

The governments run scared accross europe at the very word " referendum" in relation to the EU, because they know the public will just rip it up, spit on it and shit on it.

The EU only benefits those from the old bloc, the western elite are left carrying the burden of years and years of communist rule that the east endured.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:51 PM   #105
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I wasn't even aware I was a Eurofederalist
in the end I don't care how we get rid of useless / hindering difference in legislation between EU countries just as long as it is dealt with somehow
maybe we wouldn't need much of a political unity to achieve this in a perfect world
but given that all these changes are overdue for decades it seems we're not doing a good job so far

I am pretty sure that no majority of the Dutch electorate even showed up to vote
let alone that the majority voted in favour or against anything

and you can yell TRIPE!!! as much as you want
that still doesn't mean it is
tripe is the suggestion that evil politicians want a political unity to steal away countries identities

to be quite honest
I'm not even sure what you're opposing to
I'm glad you're not fuming at America for once though
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