Bono wants a United States of Africa...

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the main theory of his "utopia plan" is to have all the rulers outsted and set of government on the concept of the United States with one person leading the entire continent.


wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!! :rolleyes:

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!
 
wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!! :rolleyes:

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!

I didn't say it...it's Bonos plan!
 
wow... i think you're reading way too much into that...

do you realise what you're saying?! "all the rulers ousted"?! as if!!!

trying saying that to Mugabe!!! :rolleyes:

so many issues at stake there with your interpretation... not to mention sovereignty and the fact that Africa is made up of different countries, different cultural entities, different languages...

why would the continent of Africa want to be modelled on the concept of the United States of America where forty-seven million people don't even have access to health cover?

sorry... steaming here!

and the fact that Africa is made up of ...., different cultural entities, different languages...

^ So is the US.

And I didn't say or suggest the proposed plan...it's Bonos theory!
 
No one is talking about kicking out all the African leaders and making the whole continent one country. This is not what Bono is saying. Of course I am not in his head and cannot know exactly what he has in mind, but it seems obvious he is refering to a very important historical and political movement, namely pan-africanism, which encompasses a large range of ideas and opinions about greater political and economic, as well as cultural, integration among African countries. Integration does not necessarily equal complete loss of national sovereignty. And once again, this is NOT 'Bono's idea', he is merely giving credence to an idea that has been around for decades in and out of Africa and will continue to be in a world were increased regional cooperation and integration is becoming the norm.
 
Yep.

Thank god for not letting the people decide.

Thank god for having a political elite that will decide things for us!

(Did you even think before you posted the utter drivel that you posted? )
how is letting the people we elect do their business equal to not letting "the people" decide?
these referendum also have 30% of the population voting while the other 70% was too busy watching reruns of Knight Rider

you are one offensive dude though :up:
 
how is letting the people we elect do their business equal to not letting "the people" decide?
these referendum also have 30% of the population voting while the other 70% was too busy watching reruns of Knight Rider

you are one offensive dude though :up:

Ah, another Eurofederalist.
 
Ah, another Eurofederalist.
i thought, you being a finance guy and all, you would acknowledge the need for a united europe if any of the european countries wants to play a roll in world economics in years to come

my post was more focussed on the ludicrous situation that we elect people who spend years preparing a plan that gets veto'd by 25% of a population who don't know what they talk about
 
i thought, you being a finance guy and all, you would acknowledge the need for a united europe if any of the european countries wants to play a roll in world economics in years to come


The politically united Europe that the federalists wish for has nothing got to do with free trade or economic power, really and truly, absolutely nothing.

But, for the sake of argument, let's look at this idea you have that European countries must sacrifice their sovereignty in order to compete economically. Well, we don't have to look too far to find a small country that does alright for itself economically without feeling any need to be part of a vast political block - I speak of Switzerland. Further afield, what about Canada? New Zealand? Australia? Malaysia? All successful, small to smallish countries that don't feel the need to be part of a huge unaccountable bureaucratic powerbloc.

Incidentally, in my country, even the pro-Treaty of Lisbon campaigners don't tend to use the political and economic power go hand in hand argument, because they know that it is fundamentally weak.
 
The politically united Europe that the federalists wish for has nothing got to do with free trade or economic power, really and truly, absolutely nothing.
unity is about getting a truck to go from our factory in Breda, The Netherlands to Barcelona, Spain without it having to deal with 3 kinds of legislation

it's about me sending invoices out to Rumania, Italy and Belgium and not having to deal with different legislation on what information should appear on the invoice

it's about a company not needing to fill in 4 different form to get their VAT back just because they deal with several countries

and to create this unity you need political unity
the ghost stories of having to give up your national identity are ridiculous and have no actual foundation whatsoever
 
unity is about getting a truck to go from our factory in Breda, The Netherlands to Barcelona, Spain without it having to deal with 3 kinds of legislation

it's about me sending invoices out to Rumania, Italy and Belgium and not having to deal with different legislation on what information should appear on the invoice

it's about a company not needing to fill in 4 different form to get their VAT back just because they deal with several countries

and to create this unity you need political unity
the ghost stories of having to give up your national identity are ridiculous and have no actual foundation whatsoever

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
Great news the Irish shot down the treaty. Brussels will rejig a few words here and there and it be back again in 2 years.
 
the road to hell ... ????

could you not at least reply with some sort of poor arguement?

Jesus H. Christ.

Your post above claiming that a free trade zone requires political union is simply TRIPE, TRIPE, TRIPE. If anything, the opposite is the case.

There is no necessity whatever for political union. It is quite simply wrong and false to argue that a free trade area necessitates a political union. It is utterly wrongheaded and Eurofederalist NONSENSE.

The only thing that creates wealth is free markets, and the entrepreneurship that flourishes within free markets. That is the only thing that works, and provably works.

That is all.

We, in Ireland, don't want a Eurofederalist union.

Your people don't want it either, much as you (rather disgracefully) dismiss the views of THE MAJORITY OF THE DUTCH ELECTORATE THAT CHOOSE TO EXERCISE THEIR VOTE.

The French don't want it either - they voted no too.

And the British people, independent spirits that they are, sure as FUCK don't want it. That's why their coward spineless government is too scared to even give them a vote.

Now, I ask myself (shouting in the wilderness, no doubt:lol:):

WHAT.
PART.
OF.
NO.
DO.
THE.
EUROFEDERALISTS.
NOT.
UNDERSTAND?
 
And the British people, independent spirits that they are, sure as FUCK don't want it. That's why their coward spineless government is too scared to even give them a vote.

QFT.

The governments run scared accross europe at the very word " referendum" in relation to the EU, because they know the public will just rip it up, spit on it and shit on it.

The EU only benefits those from the old bloc, the western elite are left carrying the burden of years and years of communist rule that the east endured.
 
I wasn't even aware I was a Eurofederalist
in the end I don't care how we get rid of useless / hindering difference in legislation between EU countries just as long as it is dealt with somehow
maybe we wouldn't need much of a political unity to achieve this in a perfect world
but given that all these changes are overdue for decades it seems we're not doing a good job so far

I am pretty sure that no majority of the Dutch electorate even showed up to vote
let alone that the majority voted in favour or against anything

and you can yell TRIPE!!! as much as you want
that still doesn't mean it is
tripe is the suggestion that evil politicians want a political unity to steal away countries identities

to be quite honest
I'm not even sure what you're opposing to
I'm glad you're not fuming at America for once though :up:
 
I wasn't even aware I was a Eurofederalist

in the end I don't care how we get rid of useless / hindering difference in legislation between EU countries just as long as it is dealt with somehow
maybe we wouldn't need much of a political unity to achieve this in a perfect world

As I said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But if you truly - in your own words - "don't care how we get rid of useless / hindering difference in legislation between EU countries just as long as it is dealt with somehow" - then that implies to me that you'd happily see dissenters got rid of.

And it implies to me that your intentions ain't good.
 
i didn't reckon i implied i'd kidnap and murder people standing in the way of what i reckon should be done
just that i think some stuff should be arranged whether in the form of a united europe or some other way

and if the reason why not to do this in a united europe is some warped sense that every country will give up its autonomy and identity then i'd be very interested to learn where you'd get this idea

to be honest though i really don't know what it is you do want
i gather you disagree with me
but i have no idea what it is you do want or why
 
i didn't reckon i implied i'd kidnap and murder people standing in the way of what i reckon should be done
just that i think some stuff should be arranged whether in the form of a united europe or some other way

and if the reason why not to do this in a united europe is some warped sense that every country will give up its autonomy and identity then i'd be very interested to learn where you'd get this idea

to be honest though i really don't know what it is you do want
i gather you disagree with me
but i have no idea what it is you do want or why

I don't want a United States of Europe.
The people of Ireland don't want a United States of Europe.
The people of Denmark don't want a United States of Europe.
The people of the Netherlands don't want a United States of Europe.
The people of France don't want a United States of Europe.

And the rest...haven't been given a vote. All the electorates that WERE given a vote, said that they didn't want it.

What about that is unclear? Nothing could be clearer.
 
what is clear?
you never even said why you don't want a "United States of Europe"

you just yell "TRIPE!!!" a lot and then post some more random stuff that have little to do with the issue at hand
 
Further afield, what about Canada? New Zealand? Australia? Malaysia? All successful, small to smallish countries that don't feel the need to be part of a huge unaccountable bureaucratic powerbloc.
Australia is part of ASEAN. Also, our current good economic situation is wholly based on digging up every mineral and flogging it to the Chinese. We loike our Asian neighbours....
 
ASEAN is hardly the European Union. No, Australia tends to do one-on-one power relationships, several of them simultaneously. At present, it is the US on the one hand, and China on the other. And let us not forget Japan, but that is more a relationship of equals, and both fall under the US umbrella. And then there's all the rest, on down the list.

I'm not really familiar with the politics of Europe. I wouldn't know where to start. Which doesn't mean I don't have an opinion, just that it's all over the place.
 
Yes in terms of selling product, not by having to abide by dictates about or countries laws from a top down bureaucracy, we don't loose sovereignty by selling goods.

Financeguy is making the point that economic free trade zones can function without a superstate bureaucracy.
 
I am going to say the obvious here, the United States of America is one country. Maryland for example, is not a separate nation from New Jersey. We have state government and then the federal. One President.

My point, Africa is a continent, not a country. Though, an African Union might be a good idea, if these individual nations can work together for a greater good. Trade, employment and education should hopefully be of the highest concerns. Plus, the prevention and treatment of diseases.

I may be idealist, but I would hope that this would stop, the warfare that has displaced so many people.
 
There is no longer any hope for Zimbabwe.

Mugabe rival quits election race

Zimbabwe's opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai says he is pulling out of Friday's presidential run-off, handing victory to President Robert Mugabe. Mr Tsvangirai said there was no point running when elections would not be free and fair and "the outcome is determined by... Mugabe himself". He called on the global community to step in to prevent "genocide". But the ruling Zanu-PF said Mr Tsvangirai had taken the decision to avoid "humiliation" in the poll.

KEY POLL COMPLAINTS
Violence: 86 killed, 200,000 displaced
MDC rallies banned
MDC leaders arrested, harassed
Food aid not given to opposition areas
State media refused MDC adverts
Zanu-PF supporters to be used as election officials

The opposition decision came after its supporters, heading to a rally in the capital Harare, came under attack. The opposition Movement for Democratic Change says some 86 supporters have been killed and 200,000 forced from their homes by ruling party militias. At a press conference in Harare on Sunday, Mr Tsvangirai said: "We in the MDC cannot ask them to cast their vote on 27 June, when that vote could cost them their lives."

"We have resolved that we will no longer participate in this violent, illegitimate sham of an election process."

"We will not play the game of Mugabe," he added.

He called on the United Nations, African Union and the southern African grouping SADC to intervene to prevent a "genocide" in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe's Information Minister Sikhanyiso Ndlovu told the BBC that Mr Tsvangirai pulled out the vote because he faced "humiliation and defeat" at the hands of President Mugabe, who he said would win "resoundingly".

"Unfortunately," he said, the opposition leader's decision was "depriving the people of Zimbabwe of a vote".

BBC Africa analyst Martin Plaut says the key question now is what Thabo Mbeki, president of Zimbabwe's powerful neighbour South Africa, will do. He is in the best position to step up the pressure on Mr Mugabe, since Zimbabwe is so economically dependent on South Africa, our analyst says. South Africa immediately responded to the news by calling on the MDC to continue talks to try to find a political solution.

"We are very encouraged that Mr Tsvangirai, himself, says he is not closing the door completely on negotiations," said a spokesman for Mr Mbeki.

On Sunday, the MDC was due to stage a rally in Harare - the highlight of the campaign. But supporters of Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF occupied the stadium venue and roads leading up to it. Witnesses reported seeing hundreds of youths around the venue wielding sticks, some chanting slogans, and others circling the stadium crammed onto the backs of trucks. Some set upon opposition activists, leaving a number badly injured, the MDC said. It said African election monitors were also chased away from the rally site.

The United States reacted to Sunday's developments by saying: "The government of Zimbabwe and its thugs must stop the violence now."

The MDC says Mr Tsvangirai won the presidential election outright during the first round in March. The government admits he won more votes than President Mugabe, but says he did not take enough to win outright.

But in recent weeks, as the run-off approached, the MDC said it had found campaigning near impossible. Its members have been beaten, and its supporters evicted from their homes, forcing it to campaign in near secrecy. Mr Tsvangirai was arrested several times, and the party's secretary general, Tendai Biti, has been held and charged with treason.

The BBC's Peter Biles, in Johannesburg, says Mr Mugabe has made clear he will never relinquish power, saying only God could remove him.

While Mr Tsvangirai's move will hand victory to Mr Mugabe, it is unclear whether the international community or election observers will confer any legitimacy on the process, our correspondent says. Britain's Foreign Secretary David Miliband told the BBC: "Robert Mugabe has certainly not won the election, in fact the only people who can claim that are the opposition," which won the parliamentary vote in March. Zimbabwean ministers said the run-off vote would go ahead, unless Mr Tsvangirai submitted a formal letter of withdrawal.

But Levy Mwanawasa, president of neighbouring Zambia, said the run-off should be postponed "to avert a catastrophe in the region". He said Zimbabwe's economic collapse was affecting the whole region, and he called on SADC to take a similar stance.

"It's scandalous for SADC to remain silent on Zimbabwe," he said.

"What is happening in Zimbabwe is embarrassing to all of us."

Source: BBC NEWS | Africa | Mugabe rival quits election race

Mbeki will sit on his hands. He has been using his "quiet diplomacy" bullshit on Mugabe/Zanu-PF since 2002. Nothing will change. If he didn't assert himself when Mugabe reckoned it was okay to murder white Zimbabwean farmers, he certainly won't do anything now. He is the very definition of ineffectual. Oh, but I suppose I shouldn't be too hard on Mbeki...the socioeconomic fabric of South Africa is unravelling around him. Mugabe's insanity is probably the last thing on his mind.

Yes, bring on the United States of Africa! :laugh:
 
Though, an African Union might be a good idea, if these individual nations can work together for a greater good. Trade, employment and education should hopefully be of the highest concerns. Plus, the prevention and treatment of diseases.

Other people must have thought so too - an African Union has been in place since 2002.
 
There is no longer any hope for Zimbabwe.



Mbeki will sit on his hands. He has been using his "quiet diplomacy" bullshit on Mugabe/Zanu-PF since 2002. Nothing will change. If he didn't assert himself when Mugabe reckoned it was okay to murder white Zimbabwean farmers, he certainly won't do anything now. He is the very definition of ineffectual. Oh, but I suppose I shouldn't be too hard on Mbeki...the socioeconomic fabric of South Africa is unravelling around him. Mugabe's insanity is probably the last thing on his mind.

Yes, bring on the United States of Africa! :laugh:


Excuse me while I barf next time i hear about the greatness of Nelson Mandela, his country's government are Mugabe's biggest ally, he could step in and put pressure on Mugabe and put an end to this, but he and his governement continue to refuse to say a thing.
 
Excuse me while I barf next time i hear about the greatness of Nelson Mandela, his country's government are Mugabe's biggest ally, he could step in and put pressure on Mugabe and put an end to this, but he and his governement continue to refuse to say a thing.

Whats that got to do with Nelson Mandela ?
 
Excuse me while I barf next time i hear about the greatness of Nelson Mandela, his country's government are Mugabe's biggest ally, he could step in and put pressure on Mugabe and put an end to this, but he and his governement continue to refuse to say a thing.

This probably is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in FYM in a LONG time.
 
Excuse me while I barf next time i hear about the greatness of Nelson Mandela, his country's government are Mugabe's biggest ally, he could step in and put pressure on Mugabe and put an end to this, but he and his governement continue to refuse to say a thing.

:huh:

Mandela's government? You say that as though he is still a prominent part of the ANC! I hate to be the one to break the news, but Mandela's political influence in South Africa is nearing its end. The incompetent fools who have followed in his stead are in the process of destroying everything that he fought for.

Direct your frustration where it belongs - squarely upon the shoulders of Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma. Since they are essentially the two most-powerful men in southern Africa, they are the ones who should be doing something about Mugabe. Yes, I agree that Mandela could probably be a bit more vocal about the situation...but at the same time, we can't expect him to solve these problems forever. The current ANC has to demonstrate that it is capable of upholding Mandela's ideals without him. They're failing miserably in that department, and he's not even dead yet.
 
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