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Old 06-05-2008, 09:04 AM   #46
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Maybe what makes people come on the defensive about this issue is that he wants it to be call the United States of, through using the same concept though which I think is not a bad idea, the name should be changed to something else that would not offend many people in the US.
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:05 AM   #47
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:54 AM   #48
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Maybe what makes people come on the defensive about this issue is that he wants it to be call the United States of, through using the same concept though which I think is not a bad idea, the name should be changed to something else that would not offend many people in the US.
Why would that offend people in the US?
Do people in the US have an exclusive right to this title?
I'm sure Bono was speaking metaphorically. Is this even an original quote from him or is this something the newspaper made up?

And why shouldn't countries have the right to unite in order to bring peace and better lives to their people, without having to take care if someone in America is "offended"?
I don't understand. Is the African Union also an offence to people living in the European Union? I don't think so.
Call it whatever you want. It's the concept behind it that counts. And in the end it really has to be effective.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:07 AM   #49
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I have doubts that a union of kleptocrats would be either feasible or desirable.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:10 AM   #50
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It´s not a peace project.

Most of all it´s an economic project and centralized politics controlling the member states.

It was once set up with the vision of peace for Europe, that´s true. But look where it´s going now, the EU has its own army and is heavily involved in so-called "peace-keeping" missions (in reality militarist interventions, often with strong economic interests by some of the EU countries).

To speak of a peace project when the EU is building Eurofighters en masse.. you meant to be cynical, didn´t you?

Africa unite! bless to the one who mentioned Marcus Garvey
in a way you could call the origins of the EU a "peace project" of sorts - the European Coal and Steel Community was initially a strategic alliance between France and Germany as France wanted to tie itself economically to Germany in order to protect itself after WW2 - becoming economically interdependent on each other was meant to dissuade future conflict
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:16 AM   #51
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Maybe what makes people come on the defensive about this issue is that he wants it to be call the United States of, through using the same concept though which I think is not a bad idea, the name should be changed to something else that would not offend many people in the US.


oh, sorry

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Old 06-05-2008, 11:33 AM   #52
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Unimaginable? In the 90s no one would have thought something like a civil war in Yugoslavia (now former Yugoslavia) could happen. European tribalism?
I was only speaking of EU member states here (including Norway and Switzerland).
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:39 AM   #53
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I was only speaking of EU member states here (including Norway and Switzerland).
well, there's difficulties with the ETA/Basque thing too in Spain/French Pyrenees... not all out war obviously, but still engaged and trying their best to blow people up...
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:28 PM   #54
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well, there's difficulties with the ETA/Basque thing too in Spain/French Pyrenees... not all out war obviously, but still engaged and trying their best to blow people up...
Well, ok, let's make my point more clear: What is unimaginable today is that one, two or more member states of the European Union (incl. Norway and Switzerland) will again declare war on another country/on each other.

I'm well aware that some countries, like Italy, Belgium or Spain still are deeply divided and have separation movements, not to forget that some people in Northern Ireland for sure still would love to separate from the UK.
And I'm, of course, well aware that there are still elements in these movements that see terroristic measures as being legitimate, most especially in the ETA.
But I see this as being entirely different from the wars we have seen until 1945.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:14 PM   #55
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"Irish people used to always have a little giggle when they would see Americans saluting their flags in schools, and then the whole standing there, singing the flag thing," Bono said.

"But as you get to know a little bit more about things, you start to think, ah, there's so many different tribal groups in the United States, that to create a national identity of that size, they had to really work at this kind of patriotism," he said.
What a strange way to characterize American national identity. I have no idea which "tribes" he has in mind, but unless he means the actual states (which are hardly rife with ominous rumblings of separatism), we aren't fragmented into groups with distinct geopolitical ambitions, which is what you get wars fought over. And unless they're elementary schoolteachers, active-duty military or attend sporting events regularly, most Americans haven't had cause to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the national anthem in decades. I can't imagine what the alternative identities we're apparently in peril of dissolving chaotically (back?) into would be.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:39 PM   #56
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the only reason why Europe will keep moving forward to uniting is because of economic reasons
being aware that we need to work together to compete with Asia and the US

if Africa ever wants to move forward in this globalized world I have no doubts the only way to do this is to Unite somehow
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:13 PM   #57
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oh, sorry

And whats so very funny?
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by last unicorn View Post
Why would that offend people in the US?
Do people in the US have an exclusive right to this title?
I'm sure Bono was speaking metaphorically. Is this even an original quote from him or is this something the newspaper made up?

And why shouldn't countries have the right to unite in order to bring peace and better lives to their people, without having to take care if someone in America is "offended"?
I don't understand. Is the African Union also an offence to people living in the European Union? I don't think so.
Call it whatever you want. It's the concept behind it that counts. And in the end it really has to be effective.

I agree with you that it's the concept that counts. I think there are quite a few Bono haters out there and this will just give them the right to really jump on the band wagon about his causes.

It was an original quote from him when he was Japan.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:06 AM   #59
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And whats so very funny?
this:

quote JCOSTER: "the name should be changed to something else that would not offend many people in the US."

(but the quote is possibly more arrogant than funny)
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:16 AM   #60
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Well, ok, let's make my point more clear: What is unimaginable today is that one, two or more member states of the European Union (incl. Norway and Switzerland) will again declare war on another country/on each other.
Unimaginable on another country? I don´t think so. Then why did the EU create an own army of 100,000 soldiers? Why are the bureaucrats from Brussels so eager to establish their own multi billion arms deals?

No, Vincent, declaring war is possible anytime with the criminals there. But of course, we call it humanitarian. We want to bring "peace" to our world, call it "interventions", just like the U.S. In the name of democracy we continue to steal the raw materials and resources from Africa!

France is heavily exporting arms. Beautiful Mme. Sarkozy is married to a butcher. Media loves them. Of course.. many Europeans are happy we haven´t seen a war, but I´ll tell you what, it´s not that far off. Ask your parents for a moment what has changed on the news, in the language, in our national/ militarist pride, even the wording has become more violent. Long term strategy my dear. Our leaders are working on making war socially acceptable.

Call me pessimistic, but the only reason we didn´t have a big war since WW II is that all our history is so ugly, bad, devastating, shocking and bloody that 2 generations learned something. The third generation forgets.. it makes a difference whether you have lost 60% of your friends and family (like our grandmothers and -fathers) OR if you only discussed the Nazis in school and at night you beat up punks with the gang.
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