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Old 11-06-2003, 09:43 AM   #16
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Originally posted by bonoman
What Bono is doing is making a really not to ineresting convention into a hot ticket. Bono isnt making a constructive effort to talk alone with the people who can make this happen. He should be meeting with these people like he did with Bush, he should be meeting with foriegn affairs ministers and finance ministers instead of 'sucking up' to Martin.

Oh and Antrim, the conservatives are western Canada's only hope of EVER getting any recognition and voice. Western Canada is a nobody in Canadian politcs, even though BC has a huge tourism industry and Alberta is Canada's richest province. And i had to laugh at Kobi, i cant beleive you are looking forward to the tribute to Jean. The worst thing that has ever happened to Canadian Politics!
you're right. bono is there to sell packages. but he will also be at the ground floor of this new administration. a chance to educate and influence what will be a government looking to pave its own way. they're scratching one anothers backs essentially. as anitram said, he has met with martin privately, but imagine if he gets the 10-15 000 party members intrigued by africa as well. that's a good chance for a G8 nation to effect real change.

bonoman, there is a certain east/west divide of opinion on chretien and his team. they've screwed up at times. so will martin. so does bush. so would harper, or clark. there is great potential in the opposition attack.

but he's also done a lot right.

i think martin will wisely step away from star wars when push comes to shove. even though it is stupid and i think not doing it is the right move, it will result in lost contracts for industry here.
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:41 PM   #17
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Sorry I'm unfamilar with this 'star wars'.

Come on, Jean has done so much harm to this country, said so many useless and stupid things. What about his promise to kill the GST? Or how himself (and the savior Martin) have cut military spending by 23% over the past 10 years. Or maybe how he nearly has ruined or relationship with the US. Maybe Bush not even coming to meet with Jean in Canada is proof enough on how hated he is by the US admin. I'm saying we should be kissing Americans asses but to disagree with your biggest trading partner in the way the Liberals have is hurting Canada.

I know Martin is gonna go done to the US and make up for some of the hurt but some people have wont be so easy to get back.

The last ten years of Liberal govt has been a disgrace.

Jean should just go get some flin flon weed and roll one up, like he has said he might do! Yes Americans you heard it right, our leader has said maybe after his term he might try weed. It was to ome off as a joke but Jean never jokes.
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:01 PM   #18
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Originally posted by bonoman
Sorry I'm unfamilar with this 'star wars'.

Come on, Jean has done so much harm to this country, said so many useless and stupid things. What about his promise to kill the GST? Or how himself (and the savior Martin) have cut military spending by 23% over the past 10 years. Or maybe how he nearly has ruined or relationship with the US. Maybe Bush not even coming to meet with Jean in Canada is proof enough on how hated he is by the US admin. I'm saying we should be kissing Americans asses but to disagree with your biggest trading partner in the way the Liberals have is hurting Canada.

I know Martin is gonna go done to the US and make up for some of the hurt but some people have wont be so easy to get back.

The last ten years of Liberal govt has been a disgrace.

Jean should just go get some flin flon weed and roll one up, like he has said he might do! Yes Americans you heard it right, our leader has said maybe after his term he might try weed. It was to ome off as a joke but Jean never jokes.
I admit I'm not an expert on Canadian politics. But I think many here believe that Bush had just as much if not more to do with the disconnect between US and Canada than anyone.

He may try pot, good for him, at least he's waiting till after his term, we have addicts in our White House.
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:17 PM   #19
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Originally posted by bonoman
Sorry I'm unfamilar with this 'star wars'.

I know Martin is gonna go done to the US and make up for some of the hurt but some people have wont be so easy to get back.

The last ten years of Liberal govt has been a disgrace.
star wars is a proposed system of missile defence the white house wants to launch into space. from what i know of it, the only selling point is the cool name. i think it goes back to reagan though.

im sorry we have to disagree bonoman. as the supastar said, the two nations should be able to disagree. chretien did let some of his mp's behave foolishly and that was a screw up admittedly. but theres a lot of other things going on in this relationship. philosphically, the two administrations are at odds.
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:17 PM   #20
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Originally posted by bonoman
Or maybe how he nearly has ruined or relationship with the US. Maybe Bush not even coming to meet with Jean in Canada is proof enough on how hated he is by the US admin. I'm saying we should be kissing Americans asses but to disagree with your biggest trading partner in the way the Liberals have is hurting Canada.
PLEASE.

If you consider Chretien doing what the MAJORITY of his citizens wanted (yes, clear majority, from what I remember, around 80%), he did his job. He is supposed to represent his constituency and his citizens, who gives a flying fuck about what Bush wants? He is neither Canadian nor should he have any say in how we run our country.

And we can disagree if we want. The fact is that MOST Canadians agree with the way Chretien has dealt with Iraq, Kyoto, etc. The fact you don't probably sucks for you, but hey, it's a democracy where the majority counts.

Bush is petty and frankly if he doesn't want to come up here for a political visit, I'm not losing any sleep over it. He'll be gone in one or 5 years, and the moment could not come soon enough.

I feel badly for the PC party, even though I am not a Conservative. I think that they truly do try to represent their voters well. But The Alliance on the other hand wants to be Republicans North and their stunning ignorance about the fact that the majority of Canadians and nearly all immigrants which are the biggest voting block out east have no need or want for a xenophobic, religiously fundamentalist party who opposes gay rights, opposes Kyoto, wants to get into bed with Bush despite the will of the majority. They will never make a significant impact in Canada because they do not represent the majority Canadian view. The fact they don't recognize that makes them pretty damn stupid in my eyes.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:06 PM   #21
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Originally posted by anitram


PLEASE.

If you consider Chretien doing what the MAJORITY of his citizens wanted (yes, clear majority, from what I remember, around 80%), he did his job. He is supposed to represent his constituency and his citizens, who gives a flying fuck about what Bush wants? He is neither Canadian nor should he have any say in how we run our country.

And we can disagree if we want. The fact is that MOST Canadians agree with the way Chretien has dealt with Iraq, Kyoto, etc. The fact you don't probably sucks for you, but hey, it's a democracy where the majority counts.

Bush is petty and frankly if he doesn't want to come up here for a political visit, I'm not losing any sleep over it. He'll be gone in one or 5 years, and the moment could not come soon enough.

I feel badly for the PC party, even though I am not a Conservative. I think that they truly do try to represent their voters well. But The Alliance on the other hand wants to be Republicans North and their stunning ignorance about the fact that the majority of Canadians and nearly all immigrants which are the biggest voting block out east have no need or want for a xenophobic, religiously fundamentalist party who opposes gay rights, opposes Kyoto, wants to get into bed with Bush despite the will of the majority. They will never make a significant impact in Canada because they do not represent the majority Canadian view. The fact they don't recognize that makes them pretty damn stupid in my eyes.
Amen brother!

I was going to say something myself, but you pretty much said it all.

Though I am not happy about Bono at the Liberal convention. It would be more appropriate to meet with Martin (or Layton! one can dream...) behind closed doors after the next election.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:12 PM   #22
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Sorry in my last post i said "we should be kissing Amricans asses" i didnt intend on saying that i meant 'shouldnt".

Anyways, i agree with you that we shouldnt have went into the Iraq war. No oppistion here. But the way that Jean handled it is what i question. he should have went there to explain our position. All Jean did was avoid the situation, didnt make a splash with the Germans/French. Why if this country was so againist this war (rightfully so) didnt we fight againist. Make our voice heard. All Jean said was that he would follow the UN vote. Get some balls, dont just stand in the back of the room and stand silent. Believe in your (Canadians) convictions. Tell the Bush admin that we disagree, that we are againist, that we are pissed. Dont just stand around with your thumb up your ass.

I really want the PC/Aliance to do well in Canada. They wont win. But to have some sort of opisition party would be nice. But youve gotta love how Jean and the Liberals actually call themselves 'liberal'. They are small-c conservatives that cloak themselves in liberal clothing.

Look with all the scandel this admin has been part of i'm sick of them. Between the private flights out to that oil families (fuck cant remember their name) house for fishing (3 ministers, including the finance minister. Their lack of regard for everything west of Ontario. Their backhanded comments to out biggest ally, friend, trading partner. Their lack of balls when they could really do something (for example when that Indonisian person who spoke at a summit who said derogetory things about Jews and the Holacost, and Jean shoke his hand afterwards whole Bush told him straight and walk away). It's all to much i've lost faith in the Liberals.

Antrim you say 'who gives a flying fuck what bush wants' well i'd like your feeling on how Martin is already planning a trip to Camp David. How he wants to mend the relationship between Canada and US. What are your thoughts on Martins stance on the US (Pro US)?

I love discussing Canadian Politics. We are so civil about it.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:47 PM   #23
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Originally posted by bonoman
Antrim you say 'who gives a flying fuck what bush wants' well i'd like your feeling on how Martin is already planning a trip to Camp David. How he wants to mend the relationship between Canada and US. What are your thoughts on Martins stance on the US (Pro US)?
I am not going to vote for Paul Martin anyway, so I'm not particularly interested in him kissing Bush's ass. I think it's lame and I think he has to go about it very carefully because Canadians are fickle and he can be out on his ass in a few years if we don't like what we see.

As I said, he is far too centre for me. You are right, the Liberals are small c conservatives, but Paul Martin is much more conservative than Chretien was, so I'm not that impressed at all. I think we need to have a good relationship with our neighbour and biggest trading partner, but I also think that 80% of the problem here is Bush and his childish, immature pettiness, his heavyhandedness, his arrogance, his disregard of public opinion, his simplistic 'with us or against us' views and his total lack of interest in Canada. Like the Liberals don't care about Alberta, Bush doesn't give a half a crap about Canada. Paul Martin can go there and try to be Blair Jr. and that won't change. I thank God we didn't get into this Iraq mess, at least now we don't have scandals about who lied about what.

I will be voting for Jack Layton and the NDP, seemingly the only party in Canada which is interested in doing something positive for the general populace.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:52 PM   #24
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Damnit...now what are we supposed to argue about?!?!
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:06 PM   #25
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Well, there's always Ralph Klein.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:22 PM   #26
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Ahhh i could argue for or againist the best piss of shit that ever happened to alberta
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:06 AM   #27
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i don't give a damn who he parties with as long as we get a photo op
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:24 AM   #28
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My view on the whole US relatiosn thing is that Cretien did finally do the right thing, but dicked around for months to do it trying to please verybody and ended up pleasing no one. Had Canada taken a firm stance to begin with I think the Bush government wouldn't have gotten so pissed off. They still would have been greatly annoyed but we might still be speaking to them. And all teh pot shots from Liberal ministers didn't help things. I hate kissing American ass morethan anyone, but only make complaints when they are going to accomplish something positive forteh nation, not to make yourself feel good or look tough to your constituents. Plus it's bad diplomacy and lowered Canada in teh eyes of the world. It was childish.

But Bush never like cretien from teh start. We have yet to get an appology for our soldiers who got killed in Afghanistan by that American pilot, and Bush took his sweet timegiving any condolences at all, or mentioning us as allies. Cretien soured relations further but Bush was responsible for the inital tone.
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:51 AM   #29
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The man's hung out with G.W. for crying out loud. Do you really thing he enjoys this type of thing? I doubt it. You may call it whoring out, but if he feels that it will help to make this world a little better for his grandchildren, then godspeed.
funny i always forget that bush is the anti-christ... then i take a looksie around FYM, and you guys always remind me. thank you for that... without the constant bashing i'd completely forget that george w. bush is in fact the son of satan.
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Old 11-11-2003, 09:25 PM   #30
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funny i always forget that bush is the anti-christ... then i take a looksie around FYM, and you guys always remind me. thank you for that... without the constant bashing i'd completely forget that george w. bush is in fact the son of satan.

There is no way George W Bush could be the Anti-Christ.
The Anti-Christ is the complete evil counterpart of Jesus Christ, and from everything I read about Jesus, he was a pretty smart and charismatic guy. Bush is evil, but lacks intelligence and charisma, hence he can't be the anti-christ.
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