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Old 06-07-2007, 08:03 PM   #31
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Originally posted by butter7


I think the current information available for public access for Edun's project wouldn't produce an optimistic prediction of the project.
Are you comparing this to other highend clothing markets in their first years?

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


I like Bono's idea, but what he said wasn't strong enough to convince me to believe that Edun will definitely work the way he wished.
Work the way he wished? Well I still think you are confused as to what he meant for the company to do. He said it would provide jobs, and guess what? That's what it's doing. The only other thing I ever heard him say that he hoped Edun would do is be a model for other companies in the future.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:15 PM   #32
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I'm not confused, I'm dissatisfied, and slightly disappointed. Because I think my hero could do better than this.

And as for the other investers, they are not Bono. Why you think Nike pushed the production lines to China and Indonesia, not in Africa?
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7
I'm not confused, I'm dissatisfied, and slightly disappointed. Because I think my hero could do better than this.
But you haven't showed anyone how he's failed...

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

Why you think Nike pushed the production lines to China and Indonesia, not in Africa?
For cheap unethical labor. You've reached the heart of the matter right here.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But you haven't showed anyone how he's failed...
I didn't say Edun failed, but I do believe he could do it better.

And talk about the business ethics, as the rest of investers' blood is heating up by the potential profit, I doubt how many of them could give up money for a cause like Bono pushed and go to Africa. And if even they tried, Africa is a huge place, many countries are there, and certainly the economic development levels are vary. Wouldn't they choose the countries that has better economical/education/political conditions than the one is still struggle with both domestic and international conflicts? So the one is already better will get more opportunities, however the one who really needed the help, would still be ignored.

Plus, if you look at the distribution of a supply chain, the production plant better stay close to the distribution center to reduce the cost of the transportation channels. Even if Nike's CEO got some kind of fever, started a production division in Africa, then he must deal with the huge shipping cost to get the products back to the other side of the world, where the major market located. I don't think he'd be that bountiful.
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Edun is a way to give the upper classes means to justify purchasing a $90 shirt. It is beyond the reach of all of the lower class and most of the middle class, which combined make up some 90% of society. I always thought it was a dumb idea because of its limited reach, but they're certainly entitled to push forward with it.

If you want change in attitude and hearts and minds, you don't go about it by poking the upper 10% and some members of the middle class willing to save for outrageously priced items. You try to reach the 90% at the bottom who can actually have some influence in the political process but lack the incentive and the will.
I think that they started this way to make sure the business model could meet demand. As Edun grows, my guess is that it will become more affordable.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


I didn't say Edun failed, but I do believe he could do it better.

And talk about the business ethics, as the rest of investers' blood is heating up by the potential profit, I doubt how many of them could give up money for a cause like Bono pushed and go to Africa. And if even they tried, Africa is a huge place, many countries are there, and certainly the economic development levels are vary. Wouldn't they choose the countries that has better economical/education/political conditions than the one is still struggle with both domestic and international conflicts? So the one is already better will get more opportunities, however the one who really needed the help, would still be ignored.

Plus, if you look at the distribution of a supply chain, the production plant better stay close to the distribution center to reduce the cost of the transportation channels. Even if Nike's CEO got some kind of fever, started a production division in Africa, then he must deal with the huge shipping cost to get the products back to the other side of the world, where the major market located. I don't think he'd be that bountiful.
Butter, I'm going to end my discussion with you. You have no clue as to what Bono, Ali and others want to do with this company. It is made very clear with this post.

Goodnight...
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:24 AM   #37
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It just weird to me that you talking about it as if it was your company and you know everything about it, exactly where it is heading, so you are 100% sure what is right and what is wrong.

To me, it's very shallow just buy the idea over the media without a critical analysis. And once again, we are heading to different directions, and also different ways of thinking and looking at things. Honestly, I don't think we could achieve any agreement on this discussion, I enjoyed your posts though.

Sleep well.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:40 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7
It just weird to me that you talking about it as if it was your company and you know everything about it, exactly where it is heading, so you are 100% sure what is right and what is wrong.

To me, it's very shallow just buy the idea over the media without a critical analysis. And once again, we are heading to different directions, and also different ways of thinking and looking at things. Honestly, I don't think we could achieve any agreement on this discussion, I enjoyed your posts though.

Sleep well.
No, actually you were the one speaking as if you had some insider information.

I'm not buying any idea. I'm just stating facts...

That's something you never did. You never stated why it's a failure, you never stated what your real issue is...

I waited for several posts. But you couldn't do it.

You keep talking about different directions, but honestly after all these posts I have no clue what your real stance is. Did you want Bono to move to sweatshops in order to make more profit? Did you want Edun to be purely charity? Your arguments were so all over the place that is was just unclear...
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No, actually you were the one speaking as if you had some insider information.

I'm not buying any idea. I'm just stating facts...

That's something you never did. You never stated why it's a failure, you never stated what your real issue is...

I waited for several posts. But you couldn't do it.
Okay, I really don't like quote other people and make my argument on what they said. But this might could help to make certain things clear, so I'll give it a shot.

My statement to your question is here, I just copy them off from the previous posts I made.

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

I didn't say Edun failed, but I do believe he could do it better.
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

I think the current information available for public access for Edun's project wouldn't produce an optimistic prediction of the project. I like Bono's idea, but what he said wasn't strong enough to convince me to believe that Edun will definitely work the way he wished.
You also asked:

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Work the way he wished? Well I still think you are confused as to what he meant for the company to do. He said it would provide jobs, and guess what? That's what it's doing. The only other thing I ever heard him say that he hoped Edun would do is be a model for other companies in the future.
Edun's production line is located in Africa, and it would be a surprise if the company does not employ local people, but only foreigners. Job opportunities to the local people are the natural outcome of a company to the society, it is not what this company mean to do. The only type of firms that mean to provide job opportunities are the human resource agent/ head hunters.

As for the business model part, please referr to this post:

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


And talk about the business ethics, as the rest of investers' blood is heating up by the potential profit, I doubt how many of them could give up money for a cause like Bono pushed and go to Africa. And if even they tried, Africa is a huge place, many countries are there, and certainly the economic development levels are vary. Wouldn't they choose the countries that has better economical/education/political conditions than the one is still struggle with both domestic and international conflicts? So the one is already better will get more opportunities, however the one who really needed the help, would still be ignored.

Plus, if you look at the distribution of a supply chain, the production plant better stay close to the distribution center to reduce the cost of the transportation channels. Even if Nike's CEO got some kind of fever, started a production division in Africa, then he must deal with the huge shipping cost to get the products back to the other side of the world, where the major market located. I don't think he'd be that bountiful.
Now let's move to the next point. You argued:

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

The point of Edun is to provide somewhat affordable highend clothing, to those people who buy 155 dollar jeans, but provide them in an ethical way, sweatshop free. Give a decent job to those who would otherwise not have one.
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

And how does it distinquish itself? In many ways, besides the obvious of being sweatshop free and using handmade materials, there's also many design aspects that make them unique.
1. sweatshops: I don't think many of the highend clothing brands are actually made in sweatshops. I also don't think these brands are operated in an unethical way.

2. designing & handmade materials: Well, do I really have to argue on this point? "Style, stlye, stlye...."

If all of the highend brands have these things, then Edun is just another one of them, didn't really stick out that much.

Here is some interesting reading, great statement from Edunonline

Quote:
EDUN is not a charity. It is a for-profit business. EDUN is focused on developing a successful economic business model. Via this model, EDUNâs long-term aim is to provide trade and create long-term sustainable employment to help foster economic growth rather than provide charity.
And also:

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

You keep talking about different directions, but honestly after all these posts I have no clue what your real stance is. Did you want Bono to move to sweatshops in order to make more profit? Did you want Edun to be purely charity? Your arguments were so all over the place that is was just unclear...
Let's move one step further, would Edun still be sweatshops free, and be able to give workers decent wage, while providing style designing clothing with handmade and organic materials to its customer, with production lines located in somewhere else other than Africa? I guess the answer is yes.

So why Africa then? As both the economic and political environment aren't so attractive to other investers?

The answer is Bono wants to help Africa. You also said the workers would have no decent job if they are not working in Edun factories. With the two things added together, tell me if Edun, at the very begining, by its nature, is a Charity work or not? How many companies have CEOs like Bono?

I won't be surprised to hear some one say:"works for you, but not my company".
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:23 AM   #40
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I've never seen such a convoluted and confusing post. You really need to get some facts straight. I'll try and post a response tomorrow...
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:26 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I've never seen such a convoluted and confusing post. You really need to get some facts straight. I'll try and post a response tomorrow...


Aren't you suppose to be in bed now?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:31 AM   #42
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Yes, but people keep emailing me to set you straight, but it's too late...
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:36 AM   #43
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hehe...

I'm straight.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:41 AM   #44
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Returning to the original intent of this thread, the argument seems to be whether a bottom-up or a top-down approach would work best. As someone said earlier, I can't see why both couldn't co-exist. The problem with promoting a solely top-down approach, whereby business investments are implemented as a means to stamp out poverty is this - how likely is it that anyone would be willing to create a business that foreign investors are willing to invest in, in an area without existing infrastructure? Not very, I'm guessing. And those are the areas most in need of economic growth. And hypothetically, if investment did occur in areas where infrastructure was already in place, how likely would it be that the proceeds from the investment would trickle down to areas that are most in need? I'd also guess not very likely.

If any of you already haven't, I would urge you to read Sach's The End of Poverty. It lays out in very simple terms the root causes of extreme poverty in these areas, and exactly what needs to be done to combat this problem. Sachs' arguments and discussions are laid out very factually and logically, and he has decades of experience in the field. This is the model for development that Bono and his various minions have been promoting for years now, and I believe they're correct.

Going back to the whole Edun thing for a sec, while it's an admirable idea, I think its greatest value lies in providing a business model for others, and that's all it ever claimed to do. I'm sure that they realize one small company is not going to solve the problems of an entire continent. However, the one problem I see with all this is that despite whatever early successes the company may be having, I think a lot of it is probably due to the celebrity factor, and that the bulk of their sales are due to many fans making purchases just to own a piece of something that the Hewson family is involved with. I'm not sure that a no-name business person would be able to replicate their success.
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:36 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


Edun's production line is located in Africa
From Edun's website:

"EDUN utilizes locally run factories in Africa, South America and India.

EDUN is currently produced in Peru, Tunisia, Kenya, India, Mauritius and Madagascar."

I wouldn't generalize about the African political and economic environment - it can vary a lot by country.
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