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Old 06-07-2007, 11:11 AM   #16
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Originally posted by butter7

If Edun is to provide opportunities to African people, then they'd better produce something that the local people could afford. From economical viewpoint, if the workers who produce the products could not afford them, and they ended up buying other imported products, the money they earned would be flowing out anyway.
This definitely couldn't have been part of their strategy because even if the locals are making fair wages producing Edun products, they are in no more of a position to purchase them than a sweatshop worker in Indonesia can purchase the Nikes he just made.
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:41 AM   #17
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This definitely couldn't have been part of their strategy because even if the locals are making fair wages producing Edun products, they are in no more of a position to purchase them than a sweatshop worker in Indonesia can purchase the Nikes he just made.
The point is not they would definitely buy the Edun's product, but if they want to buy the kind of product that Edun has, would Edun be a choice for them or not?

For example: one of the worker need to buy some clothing, would he/she buy the Edun one, which cost 155 US dollars for a pair of jeans, or something cost a lot less, let's say.. Nike, made in Indonesia? Do they have a choice of buying something made in Africa, good quality, at affordable price?

It's a question that where are these money actually going? It it simply flowed in, then flowed out, I have to say, it contributed very little to the local economy.

If Bono really want to help with the economic development of Africa, he'd better take a place at the domestic "demand-supply" chain, rather than the high class, international one.
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:11 PM   #18
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Originally posted by butter7


If Edun was to set up draw people's attention to Africa, I don't think it could works better than a really touching documentary of local people's life.

If Edun is to provide opportunities to African people, then they'd better produce something that the local people could afford.

I think you've completely misunderstood the point of Edun...
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:16 PM   #19
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Originally posted by all_i_want


in capital-starved countries such as the HIPC, foreign direct investment certainly is the way - perhaps the only way - to kick start development. however, for this to successfully happen first the fundamentals need to be in place - infrastructure, education, health institutions, macroeconomic stability and rule of law.

without these fundamentals, FDI will not drastically alter the situation. the aid policy should be directed towards providing these fundamentals for it to be helpful for development. there's something called the rule of specificity, basically to strike at the heart of the disease, instead of trying to remedy its symptoms.

extreme poverty is the disease, but it thrives in environments where the fundamentals are missing.

btw, when it comes to aid, there is aid that hurts - when it is basically dumping extra food supplies - and then there is aid that helps. simply sending rice to a poor country doesnt solve anything, if anything it depresses world rice prices and pushes more poor rice farmers around the world to bankruptcy and poverty. the aid should be delivered in cash, and the recipient country should be allowed to source the products from wherever is the cheapest and economically reasonable to source from.

for example, US food aid program just makes life worse for millions around the world by dumping all the surplus rice produced by the massively subsidized rice industry.
Exactly. Well said. Thank you.

"Teaching a man to fish" doesn't work until he's got a fishing pole and some bait.

What's more, I don't think the "economists" understand exactly what Bono's advocating. They seem to think this is the same old "throwing money at the problem" solution. It's not.
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Old 06-07-2007, 03:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

The point is not they would definitely buy the Edun's product, but if they want to buy the kind of product that Edun has, would Edun be a choice for them or not?

For example: one of the worker need to buy some clothing, would he/she buy the Edun one, which cost 155 US dollars for a pair of jeans, or something cost a lot less, let's say.. Nike, made in Indonesia? Do they have a choice of buying something made in Africa, good quality, at affordable price?

It's a question that where are these money actually going? It it simply flowed in, then flowed out, I have to say, it contributed very little to the local economy.

If Bono really want to help with the economic development of Africa, he'd better take a place at the domestic "demand-supply" chain, rather than the high class, international one.
A Mercedes Benz auto worker probably can't afford the car either, but he/she makes a decent wage. I believe Bono does advocate local economic activity as well. For exmaple, the bottom up Millenium Villages Project that Jeffrey Sachs is involved with.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:05 PM   #21
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There's a bit more of a description/context of what Bono said here:

http://www.africanpath.com/p_blogEnt...logEntryID=910
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Old 06-07-2007, 06:17 PM   #22
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Originally posted by ntalwar


A Mercedes Benz auto worker probably can't afford the car either, but he/she makes a decent wage. I believe Bono does advocate local economic activity as well. For exmaple, the bottom up Millenium Villages Project that Jeffrey Sachs is involved with.
I think this comparison doesn't apply to the Edun condition very well. Workers from Mercedes do not live in a subject poverty country like Africa.
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Old 06-07-2007, 06:27 PM   #23
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You're missing the point again.
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Old 06-07-2007, 06:36 PM   #24
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You're missing the point again.
Sorry to say that, but I think you actually didn't get my point, for some reason. Might because we basically hold different orientations. If we heading to different direction, we certainly wouldn't be on the same path. So even if you've got my point, you wouldn't agree on it.

For me, the first thing for a business is to make profit. You can't save others if you can't save yourself. If Edun couldn't grow strong in a short time, the rest of the plan would forever stay in the blue print. And from this perspective, product (RED) achieved a lot better, compare to Edun.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:01 PM   #25
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Originally posted by butter7


Sorry to say that, but I think you actually didn't get my point, for some reason. Might because we basically hold different orientations. If we heading to different direction, we certainly wouldn't be on the same path. So even if you've got my point, you wouldn't agree on it.

For me, the first thing for a business is to make profit. You can't save others if you can't save yourself. If Edun couldn't grow strong in a short time, the rest of the plan would forever stay in the blue print. And from this perspective, product (RED) achieved a lot better, compare to Edun.


But you are missing the point of Edun. It's not designed to be like RED, it's not designed so that the people working and making the clothes can afford them, that is not the purpose. This is what you aren't getting. The point of Edun is to provide somewhat affordable highend clothing, to those people who buy 155 dollar jeans, but provide them in an ethical way, sweatshop free. Give a decent job to those who would otherwise not have one.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:31 PM   #26
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




But you are missing the point of Edun. It's not designed to be like RED, it's not designed so that the people working and making the clothes can afford them, that is not the purpose. This is what you aren't getting. The point of Edun is to provide somewhat affordable highend clothing, to those people who buy 155 dollar jeans, but provide them in an ethical way, sweatshop free. Give a decent job to those who would otherwise not have one.
If you step further, look at the marketing orientation and strategy of Edun, there's one big question hanging there: How does Edun distinguish itself from other products which aiming at the same target market?

As I stated before, this target market space is narrow, and certainly only little margin for a new brand to survive. Bono said Edun it's not a charity work, but I can't see why people would buy these things if they don't have the charity thoughts in their mind and felt in their heart when there's similar products available in the market for less cost.

I care more about the business side of this project, purely practical. I'm afraid even Edun might be a great idea, if Bono and his team couldn't make it in reality, it's only a dream. And from Edun's current condition, it's a quite tough job.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:33 PM   #27
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Don't know who did the business case and marketing research for the Edun project, but I'm curious to know what they said on the report.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:33 PM   #28
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Originally posted by butter7


I think this comparison doesn't apply to the Edun condition very well. Workers from Mercedes do not live in a subject poverty country like Africa.
Edun wasn't meant to solve all of Africa's problems. No single thing can do that. Let's be realistic.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:42 PM   #29
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As I stated before, this target market space is narrow, and certainly only little margin for a new brand to survive. Bono said Edun it's not a charity work, but I can't see why people would buy these things if they don't have the charity thoughts in their mind and felt in their heart when there's similar products available in the market for less cost.

I care more about the business side of this project, purely practical. I'm afraid even Edun might be a great idea, if Bono and his team couldn't make it in reality, it's only a dream. And from Edun's current condition, it's a quite tough job.
Maybe you just aren't familiar with the target market.

And how does it distinquish itself? In many ways, besides the obvious of being sweatshop free and using handmade materials, there's also many design aspects that make them unique.

What's Edun's current condition? The last I heard they were doing pretty damn good for a new line in that type of target.
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:58 PM   #30
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Maybe you just aren't familiar with the target market.

And how does it distinquish itself? In many ways, besides the obvious of being sweatshop free and using handmade materials, there's also many design aspects that make them unique.

What's Edun's current condition? The last I heard they were doing pretty damn good for a new line in that type of target.
I think the current information available for public access for Edun's project wouldn't produce an optimistic prediction of the project. I like Bono's idea, but what he said wasn't strong enough to convince me to believe that Edun will definitely work the way he wished.
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