Bono and Bush ironically have similar struggles.. - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-05-2003, 12:29 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Diamond,
If you think the entire situation in the Middle East could be solved in "a couple of months," what do you think has prevented it being solved before?
__________________

__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:48 PM   #17
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,447
Local Time: 10:07 AM
delays before the war started might have somethin' to do with it...

i often wonder if america today could ever sit through something like the world wars again... where the number of troops dying in just one day surpased the number that have died in this entire operation... which is apparently a long drawn out quagmire when it's only been a few months. eh... guess we'll never know
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:58 PM   #18
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
delays before the war started might have somethin' to do with it...

i often wonder if america today could ever sit through something like the world wars again... where the number of troops dying in just one day surpased the number that have died in this entire operation... which is apparently a long drawn out quagmire when it's only been a few months. eh... guess we'll never know
I think the whole point is to never have to do that again.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:59 PM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

Verte-
I see things a little more simple I guess.
These are religous fanactics.
Every religion and every country has them.
Sensible countries and leaders need to unite and remove these irretrievable souls that choose to force ppl how to live and kill innocent life from the face of the earth.
Its that simple.
It could be solved in a few months.

DB9
I respectfully disagree diamond. This scenario has been centuries in the making. You can't untie the knots, so to speak, in a matter of months. Heck the word "Iraq" is from an Arabic word meaning "rooted". Just trying to keep up with the damn names in Fromkin's book is a challenge. The whole thing is one
fd up mess if you ask me.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:02 PM   #20
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Headache-
Re Bono's cause..these ahtletes should be clamoring to the cause as this is an emergency..begging to be part of the effort to help their brothers and sisters.
All professional athetes w "celeberty currency" regrdless of color should unite w Bono to defeat this plague...as we are a human family we are all brothers and sisters.
Bono must be throwing chairs around pissed off w/their lack of action.
They need to think "globally" and not locally in this day and age.
I agree. This is an emergency. This is no time to stay in your own little world, especially if you are a celebrity adored by millions.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:06 PM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 10:07 AM
In a few months? Get real.

diamond, allow me to speak from experience. When you have people living in a region who have a history of ethnic and religious strife that dates back to the middle ages or earlier, you will never solve it in a few months. You can't understand this because you never lived through it yourself. I did. What happens is that there is a certain mentality that is passed on to every generation, so that children from a very young age understand very well the difference between 'us' and 'them.' What is a piece of land to you was somebody's great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's farm or orchard or whatever, and it is not simply a piece of land, but it is symbolic of something that was lost, probably unjustly in your eyes. When you have generations who have hated each other, and every family has a member who has somehow been harmed, either physically or economically by the other side, you do not solve this problem in a few months. It is absolutely ridiculous to even say something like that. People's national ideas about themselves become deeply ingrained and then they permeate the social fabric and become part of the culture itself. It's not a matter of changing opinions, it is a matter of changing the way of life for millions of people.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:11 PM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


I respectfully disagree diamond..
Verte-

As far as Iraq-
Do you agree that fanactics and terorists are now gathered in Iraq and need to be taken/snuffed out?

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:14 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 AM

DB9 [/B][/QUOTE]

Anitram-

As far as Iraq-
Do you agree that fanactics and terorists are now gathering in Iraq and need to be taken/snuffed out?

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:17 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
In a few months? Get real.

diamond, allow me to speak from experience. When you have people living in a region who have a history of ethnic and religious strife that dates back to the middle ages or earlier, you will never solve it in a few months. You can't understand this because you never lived through it yourself. I did. What happens is that there is a certain mentality that is passed on to every generation, so that children from a very young age understand very well the difference between 'us' and 'them.' What is a piece of land to you was somebody's great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's farm or orchard or whatever, and it is not simply a piece of land, but it is symbolic of something that was lost, probably unjustly in your eyes. When you have generations who have hated each other, and every family has a member who has somehow been harmed, either physically or economically by the other side, you do not solve this problem in a few months. It is absolutely ridiculous to even say something like that. People's national ideas about themselves become deeply ingrained and then they permeate the social fabric and become part of the culture itself. It's not a matter of changing opinions, it is a matter of changing the way of life for millions of people.
Absolutely. Very well said. Something that took centuries to develop can't be changed in a matter of months. The U.S. is a very young country and we don't understand "rootedness" as the Europeans and Asians do.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:22 PM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 03:07 PM
I absolutely agree with anitram's post and I think it would be good for many people to try to understand the perspective which people from the middle east (or any other region for that matter) have on their country's situation. It's very easy for us to see everything from the perspective of a person living in America or Britain or Western Europe and fail to take into account that people's mindsets are different all around the world. (Note: different - not better or worse.)

Diamond, I think you're simplifying things far too much. Yes there's something to be said for not getting caught up in the thousand and one interpretations of the situation. However you can't even begin to understand the middle east without understanding the history and in my opinion you can't even hope to begin understanding it without trying to see the situation from the perspective of those involved - for instance by talking to people from that region or reading their writings about the subject.

And finally, to reduce this entire debate to a "do you think terrorism is bad" style question is just wrong. Of course everyone opposes terrorism, but we differ in our opinions on how terrorism could be defeated.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:31 PM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 AM
Fizzing
Anitram
Verte-
As a whole, are you saying your average Muslim thinks it's ok to slaughter a Non Muslim?

Are you also saying your average Iraqi citizen think it ok to have fanatical terrorists taking out innocents?

or
Is the average Iraqi or reg law abiding Muslim afraid of the fanatics and will and stamina of those trying to free them of their oppressors?

think about it.

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:52 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 03:07 PM
Diamond,
Why are you just throwing in completely unrelated questions? We were having a discussion about whether all conflicts in the middle east could be solved in a few months, as you said. Do you disagree with what verte, anitram and myself have said? Why do you think if the situation could be solved in a few months it's been persisting for much, much longer than that? Do you think it's important to learn the history of a region in order to understand its current political situation? Do you think it's helpful to attempt to understand a situation from the perspective of thoes involved?

None of us have said anything about Muslims thinking it's okay to kill non-Muslims so I don't really understand why you throw that in there. It's not at all relevant to our discussion.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 02:02 PM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 AM
Fizzing-
I started talking out about Iraq and what is going inside of the borders of that country and the inaction of some of the USA's Allies.
Another poster invoked the whole Middle East into it.

I do think if The USA's allies took the appropiate action it would only take a few short months in Iraq and then send a message outside of Iraq to the entire Middle East that peaceful nations and freedom loving ppl of the entire world are united against them.

In that context I thought my questions to be appropiate.

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 02:23 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:07 PM
diamond, there are so many things separating us from "freedom loving" and "peace loving" people in the Middle East. These people oppose terrorism, extremism, and murderous violence in all of its forms. But they have Arabic (or Turkish, or Persian, etc, etc.) emotions, experiences, traditions, lives.............not American. There's no simplifying this. It's painfully complex. The story is in the books that give me headaches trying to figure out everything, keep up with the damn names..........ouch. It's not painless.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-05-2003, 02:44 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 AM
Do you think were making it more complicated than it is..w/all the "shades of grey" type arguments?
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com