Bob Dole should be ashamed of Bob Dole

[ThatGuy]

http://www.slate.com/id/2105781/

 

[U2democrat]

verrrrrrrry interesting. bob dole needs to make up bob dole's mind.

 

[cydewaze]

This whole campaign is making me sick to my stomach. Kerry makes the third Vietnam vet that the republicans have attacked in as many election cycles (McCain in 2000, Max Cleland in 2002). When is someone going to grow a spine and tell them to stuff it?

 

[medmo]

You're right cydewayze, it is sickening. I had an intense dislike for Dole 10-12 years ago, but over time I developed an enormous amount of respect for him. I still have that respect, but to see this is sad.

I'm fairly young, but I don't remember it ever being this partisan.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

When is someone going to grow a spine and tell them to stuff it?

 

[verte76]

This whole campaign is making me sick to my stomach. Kerry makes the third Vietnam vet that the republicans have attacked in as many election cycles (McCain in 2000, Max Cleland in 2002). When is someone going to grow a spine and tell them to stuff it?

I agree, it's disgusting and indecent. Guess what my latest painting is? It's a protest against incivility in politics in general, it's not supposed to be partisan, and we are going to put it on my art site soon.

 

[U2democrat]

I agree, it's disgusting and indecent. Guess what my latest painting is? It's a protest against incivility in politics in general, it's not supposed to be partisan, and we are going to put it on my art site soon.

Cool, I want to see it you're an excellent artist. What's your medium?

Anyway, you would think the American people would connect the dots on the Bush campaign's history of smearing true american heros, and as John Edwards drool says, "reject the tired old hateful politics of the past".

 

[STING2]

Cool, I want to see it you're an excellent artist. What's your medium?

Anyway, you would think the American people would connect the dots on the Bush campaign's history of smearing true american heros, and as John Edwards drool says, "reject the tired old hateful politics of the past".

The Democrats are just as guilty when it comes to smearing people. Just look at all the shit they have thrown at Bush. Unless they own up to that fact, its simply hypocritical of them to criticize on this particular point.

 

[Scarletwine]

The difference is the Democrats have the truth about Bush to sling at him, not lies, nor attacking his service.

 

[STING2]

The difference is the Democrats have the truth about Bush to sling at him, not lies, nor attacking his service.

Oh yes, Democrats tell the truth while the rest of us Republicans lie. No one ever attacked Bush's military services? Come on!

 

[Bono's shades]

What makes me truly sick is the mud-slinging seems to be working. I keep seeing news reports about Kerry falling behind in several key states. I just don't get it. Why aren't more veterans furious about the Republicans having the gall to attack decorated war veterans when their candidate did everything he could to avoid active service?

I also used to respect Bob Dole. I don't anymore.

 

[ThatGuy]

The Democrats are just as guilty when it comes to smearing people. Just look at all the shit they have thrown at Bush. Unless they own up to that fact, its simply hypocritical of them to criticize on this particular point.

Who on the left is out there lying about/smearing Bush's service record? When Bush's missing months in the National Guard get as much media play as Kerry's purple hearts, then you can say that Democrats are "just as guilty." Google "bush national guard" and "kerry vietnam" to see the disparity between the coverage of the two issues.

Do you know anything about the Bush campaign's smear campaign against John McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries? When Kerry pulls stuff like this, then you can accuse Deomcrats of being "just as bad."

 

[deep]

Oh yes, Democrats tell the truth while the rest of us Republicans lie. No one ever attacked Bush's military services? Come on!

George Bush's Secret War

The Stiff Drink Vets break their silence.
Michael Kinsley

August 29, 2004

LOS ANGELES ? Veterans of George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard unit charged today that the president had misrepresented his military service during the Vietnam War. The veterans allege that during a period when the future president was supposed to be serving in the National Guard, he was actually fighting in Vietnam.

"For more than 30 years we have remained silent," said the head of the group, which calls itself Stiff Drink Veterans for Vermouth. But, he added, "we want to be on Larry King just as much as those Swift boat guys."

Two members of the group claim to be eyewitnesses. "It was a typical night at the guard offices," one of them recalled at a press conference yesterday. "OK, I'd had a few. But I personally saw George parachute down from a B-52, kill a dozen Cong with his bare hands, leap into one of those Swift boat thingies and stick his tongue out at John Kerry."

The White House yesterday strongly denied the Stiff Drink version of events. "As has been his policy throughout his entire life," a spokesman said, "the president never left the continental United States during the Vietnam era ? except for a few weekends in Tijuana. These Stiff Drink fellows are nothing more than a front for the Kerry campaign, which would like to convince the American people that George W. Bush is responsible for the Vietnam War."

The Stiff Drink story is not easy to confirm or refute. On one side, claiming that Bush has been lying, are two obscure drunks with close ties to the Democratic Party and long-standing grudges against the Bush family, which they claim cooperated with space aliens who carried them off to Crawford, Texas, or possibly Mars ("who can tell?") and examined their genital areas. On the other side, confirming Bush's version of events are 143 fellow reservists who have signed affidavits attesting that they saw the future president popping a Bud in the guard offices at the time when the Stiff Drink group alleges he was on a secret mission to Hanoi, where he personally arm-wrestled Ho Chi Minh.

There is no documentary evidence supporting the view that Bush was in Vietnam. However, there is an extensive collection of speeding tickets from several Southern states issued throughout the period in question to someone whose description resembles that of George W. Bush. This person called himself George W. Bush. He was driving a car registered to Bush and was carrying Bush's driver's license. In addition, there are photographs of Bush from the period in Texas papers accompanying stories such as "Bush Son Seeks Own Way" (Houston Chronicle, March 28, 1969) and "Bush Son Still Seeking Own Way" (Dallas Morning News, Dec. 12, 1972).

Bush also kept a diary. Supplied to reporters yesterday by the Bush-Cheney campaign, the diary contains multiple entries along the lines of "Woke up. Terrible hangover. But at least I'm not in Vietnam. Thanks, Dad!" Bush signed up for the Texas Air National Guard in 1968 in order to defend the state of Texas from the Viet Cong. In 1972 ? having decided, sources say, that Texas was now secure from communist infiltration ? he transferred his allegiance to a guard unit in Alabama.

There have long been mystery and controversy about what exactly Bush did in Alabama, and whether he fulfilled his reservist's obligation to show up and sharpen pencils for 45 minutes every other weekend. This is different from today's National Guard and Army Reserve practices, in which a recruiting officer leads young people to believe they are volunteering for pencil-sharpening duty and then, as soon as they've signed up, shouts "Aha! Gotcha!" and ships them off to a distant war.

"Look, Larry," the president told Barbara Walters in a recent interview, "just because I got away with it is no reason they should get away with it."

Although Bush has never said what he was doing when he was supposed to be sharpening pencils for his country, he has not denied published hypotheses that he spent the period drinking, sleeping and watching sports on TV. "It sounds easy," said one Bush friend from that era, "but keep in mind that in those days there might be only one game on the tube at any given time."

The Stiff Drink group, however, insists that Bush was actually flying sortie

 

[verte76]

I remember the whole shameful South Carolina deal. It was disgusting, despicable stuff. We knew that the Bush family politicians were capable of Mud-Slinging From Hell, and Bush had Karl Rove from the Atwater School of Character Assassination with him. At that point American politics went to hell in a haybasket. We're still there. Four years later, we are being treated to the Nasty Politics Brigade's shenanigans again. Some things never change.

 

[najeena]

I had an uncomfortable conversation with my mother-in-law yesterday when she asked me, 'so, what do you think of Kerry and all of his lies?'. This woman is a hard-core Republican who loves Rush Limbaugh and the hate-filled trash he spews. After swallowing hard (I do my best to be nice to her), I said 'well, maybe in the end it will be a matter of who can yell 'LIAR!' the loudest.'

Either way, half of this country's voters are going to be crushingly disappointed on the day after the election.

 

[verte76]

Either way, half of this country's voters are going to be crushingly disappointed on the day after the election.

I'm leaving town the day after the election........and I'm going to D.C.! I hope I'm not disappointed. The press is claiming that this is the most impassioned, charged election since 1968. Sheesh...

 

[U2democrat]

Well, I turn 18 THREE DAYS AFTER the election....talk about pain....I'll probably be in DC around then too.

 

[verte76]

Oh, about those polls in the swing states. I read something about this stuff in a blog. They took absurdly low samples, and gave them MOE's as high as 8%. Actually, as per the day after the election, I expect to be relieved, not really happy if we lose, but even so I'll have a big weight off of me. I may really want to hit that shrine the first thing.

 

[STING2]

Who on the left is out there lying about/smearing Bush's service record? When Bush's missing months in the National Guard get as much media play as Kerry's purple hearts, then you can say that Democrats are "just as guilty." Google "bush national guard" and "kerry vietnam" to see the disparity between the coverage of the two issues.

Do you know anything about the Bush campaign's smear campaign against John McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries? When Kerry pulls stuff like this, then you can accuse Deomcrats of being "just as bad."

Democrats have been attacking George Bush's guard services for nearly 5 years now! Sorry, but a simple google search does not prove your point. Kerry has his own attack force with people like (Michael Moore, sitting at the democratic convention with Jimmy Carter) Moveon.org and all kinds of other groups supposedly independent of the democrats and John Kerry.

There is no way that either side can suggest they hold the higher ground on this issue.

 

[pax]

Jimmy Carter...now THERE'S a dangerous, subversive, mean-spirited individual.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Jimmy Carter - He's Histories Greatest Monster!

 

[anitram]

Quietly assembling houses for the poor while he contemplates world domination...

Personally, I don't think he was a good president, but he's been a wonderful human since leaving office.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Just in case, that was a reference from The Simpsons (Episode 80 of the show, aired season 4 - Marge in Chains, man im a nerd) where they didn't raise enough money to buy a Lincoln statue and instead... settle for something more affordable.

Quimby: I give you our 39th President, Jimmy Carter.
first guy: Oh, come on!
second guy: He's history's greatest monster!

Carter shows that millitary service does not equal great leadership of a nation or political saavy, a message that I thought democrats were touting in the Clinton years both against George Bush and Bob Dole.

 

[cydewaze]

Democrats have been attacking George Bush's guard services for nearly 5 years now! Sorry, but a simple google search does not prove your point.

Let's see...

Exhibit A: Went to 'nam, got a few medals, and 3 purple hearts for being wounded.

Exhibit B: Applied to the National Guard and was accepted on the very same day even though there was something like a 3-month waiting period, and no one can seem to recall him even showing up for that.

And no one can suggest they hold the higher ground on this issue??

I'm sorry, but if you reversed the D and R on these two guys, Exhibit B would be front page news and Fox news fodder from now til election day. Bush would be hailed as a war hero, and the democrats would try to steer clear of the subject completely.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Oh its so good that people can respect the service of others, Bush served in the Air National Guard - are people denigrating that service and the service of other National Guardsman both then and now?

Do people think that any idiot can fly a fighter jet? Do they understand that working the controls of an underpowered F-102 with all of its mechanical quirks is not the same thing as burning a draft card an running off to Canada. Bush did not have some immunity from being for combat duty in Vietnam.

Kerry served his country honourably, but then he came home and leveled very serious accusations against his "band of brothers", if we were to listen to Kerry then those he served with that support him are all war criminals. There should be scrutiny to what he has said, by elevating his position as a strong leader on the basis of his millitary service and having other organizations denigrate Bush he should accept that he will be held to account for his own actions. One cannot look to Kerry's own political record without raising some questions about his position on issues of national security.

 

[STING2]

Let's see...

Exhibit A: Went to 'nam, got a few medals, and 3 purple hearts for being wounded.

Exhibit B: Applied to the National Guard and was accepted on the very same day even though there was something like a 3-month waiting period, and no one can seem to recall him even showing up for that.

And no one can suggest they hold the higher ground on this issue??

I'm sorry, but if you reversed the D and R on these two guys, Exhibit B would be front page news and Fox news fodder from now til election day. Bush would be hailed as a war hero, and the democrats would try to steer clear of the subject completely.

Guess who's father was accused of "war crimes" and "date Rape"? George Bush Sr. in 1992. Accusations by liberal groups accused the former president of strafing civilians in World War II and raping a date.

I'm sorry, but neither party holds the higher ground on the issue of mud slinging and proving other wise is indeed futile.

 

[kobayashi]

I'm sorry, but neither party holds the higher ground on the issue of mud slinging and proving other wise is indeed futile.

that may very well be true. what democratic supporters are upset about is the fact that the republican party seems to have much greater influence within press circles such that kerry's viet-nam issues get exceptional amounts of play, in spite of on-going events in iraq and domestic poverty issues (both of which would reasonably be considered of tantamount importance heading into an election) while the most mainstream press attention bush's service record actually gets is in michael moore films. bush's record is certainly not discussed on the nightly network news of the big 3.

while both may do it, the republican's seem to do it much better. or much worse.

either way, no one is focusing on what matters.

 

[verte76]

I have to agree kobayashi, let's get the hell out of Vietnam and onto Iraq, health care and the economy. That's what the voters want to hear, regardless of their party or political views.

 

[nbcrusader]

I find it funny to assume that the GOP has control of the media based on the SBVT coverage.


The media, in looking to "sell" their product, needs new and fresh material all the time. From this perspective, Iraq is an old product.


And political views drive what people "want" to hear or how it is framed.

 

[kobayashi]

I find it funny to assume that the GOP has control of the media based on the SBVT coverage.


The media, in looking to "sell" their product, needs new and fresh material all the time. From this perspective, Iraq is an old product.


And political views drive what people "want" to hear or how it is framed.

i never said that the GOP has control over anything. merely they are better at conveying their message.

you are correct, to some extent media outlets will meet the demands of their consumers. but the media has an undeniably neccessary agenda setting role to play. while i no longer have the resources to monitor news the way i did when i was in school, i can tell you wolf blitzer talked about viet nam and the rnc before mentioning the american poverty report last week. all told, this short story aired around 45 minutes into the hour long program. that is comical. and saddening.