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Old 10-27-2001, 03:49 AM   #31
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Uh oh.
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:56 AM   #32
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I am cautioning people not to turn this into a flame thread (no pun intended). I am not judging Christianity in the whole, but just extremism. I'm tired of extremists, and I'm more tired of the influence they have on America and our political system.

I wish people would wake up and reject these false prophets. They not only lead to a corruption of the true intentions of Christianity, they also lead to horrible stereotypes of both Christians in general and also Southerners (which I am sometimes guilty of, but trying to get away from that). How long must we sing this song?

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:57 AM   #33
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i agree that a site like this is not the best way to spread the gospel...

i also believe that tolerance is one of the main reasons our word is in the pathetic state it's in...
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Old 10-27-2001, 05:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by nintendan:
I don't understand how one can be christian and say that nothing is wrong with homosexuality. Your only fooling yourselves.
I still haven't had a response to the website that I posted in this thread.fallwell.com

If you think homosexuality is wrong, then let me see some evidence that contests this website.

fallwell.com

Sorry Melon!! I don't mean to keep bringing this topic up, but that's what this thread is mainly about. Furthermore, I'm tired of LETTING people get away with their bigoted views towards homosexuals. Show me where Jesus condemned it!! WHERE? If you didn't see my earlier response, then please scroll up.

Thanks for your patience. Please let me know what you think.




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Old 10-27-2001, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en:
i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
You can think it's wrong, and I won't flame you
Yes, but I will!

Say, Se7en.... have you ever masturbated? C'mon, you're a guy - you must have. Well, oopsy, that's a sin - and it's "wrong." Have you ever engaged in pre-marital sex? Oh my, that's a big one - and there are MANY people who feel it is "wrong" to do so. Have you ever had sex of any type without the goal of reproduction? My, my, my... that's another sin because it is "wrong." Have you ever lusted after a woman? Sorry - it's "wrong." Have you ever cheated on a test? That's a nasty way of being "wrong" and I personally disagree with that one.

All these "wrongs" are listed in the Bible, along with many others. In other words, just about everyone in the world is "wrong."

So thanks for playing the "it's wrong" game - better luck next time.
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:32 PM   #36
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A|catura, I only wish you had been here back in November 2000 and February 2001 the last times I fought that battle. An awesome spectacle indeed, but, unfortunately, led to the banning a few overzealous individuals.

Call me mellowed and more restrained, but I'd rather not get into that mess again like I did twice before. It's a complicated religious issue, compounded by several issues of Biblical translation through the centuries, the question of errancy or inerrancy, and also historial and sociological issues. It's surely a mounting task that has no easy way around it.

It is my hope that this thread does not turn into another homosexuality debate, but I admire your initiative, and, if fate determines that this does become another embittered and ugly homosexuality debate, I will enter my input as necessary. However, it is my hope that it never gets to that point. It is my hope that people here will practice sufficient restraint.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
It is my hope that this thread does not turn into another homosexuality debate, but I admire your initiative, and, if fate determines that this does become another embittered and ugly homosexuality debate, I will enter my input as necessary. However, it is my hope that it never gets to that point. It is my hope that people here will practice sufficient restraint.
Melon,

Are homosexuality debates inherently embittered and ugly? Here I am not debating homosexuality, but debates about homosexuality instead--a meta-debate, if you will.

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 10-27-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:53 PM   #38
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I've fought three debates--2 here in FYM and 1 in another forum--and all three turned hateful, spiteful, and irrational by the end. So, to answer your question, yes, I think homosexuality debates are inherently embittered and ugly.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 10:16 PM   #39
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Hm. Any possibility of this sie being satirical and a joke? Like that bonsai kittens website. I honestly am not enraged by this one; it's too 'out there' to make me take it seriously.


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Old 10-27-2001, 10:41 PM   #40
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I'm not sure if y'all realize this, but the Hell House is an actual production that travels state-to-state. I have been through the Hell House three times (my dad used to take me annually). So no this site is not a joke. Also perhaps the material does not come across the same over the net. take this line for example: "What's the matter boy nobody loves you? Nobody cares for you?"
When going through the Hell House itself, these words are spoken by a veiled 'demon' beside the suicidal person. So it's more like a demonstration of what is going on inside the suicidal person's head, rather than a mockery of the person's state of mind.

The Hell House always had a very long wait. It is advertised on all the Christian radio stations over here, so it gets pretty much publicity. It used to freak me out, because near the end when you're about to enter 'hell' you walked into a wooden shaped coffin, and then it opens up into 'hell' and there was this large devil with a strobe lighting. I must say that this Hell House has lots of imagery and things, it must take lots of time to put this thing on. After that they'd allow you into heaven and have people located at tables with religious pamphlets to read up on the christian views, and to urge you to keep in mind what you had seen that day.

I could go into this in greater detail if anyone wants.

All in all they seem to be trying to scare people out of sin, which to me isn't exactly the best way to go about it. The truth will sell itself.
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Old 10-28-2001, 06:54 AM   #41
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I belive that abortion is murder (I don't know if I would ever do it - say to my girlfriend to do it that is, but if my baby gets aborted I'll think that I was a part of a murder), I think that homosexuality is "wrong", or at least unnatural, but I don't condemnm gay people - just guys stay away from me I don't like it.

But this Hellhouse is STUPID STUPID and EVIL.

I'm chatolic and I hate when church tries to scare the belivesrs. I don't want to belive in and worship an angry god who only waits to pusih you! God is mercifull, and heaven in reward - all he can do is not give you a reward...
Hellhouse is doing a great thing for the devil - he comes in many shapes, and I think that this could be one...
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Old 10-28-2001, 07:34 AM   #42
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I could see why people would think homosexuality is wrong for religious reasons or just because they think it's disgusting. But I never understood the "It's not natural"-argument. What is natural? Is flying a plane natural? Is having a debate through the internet natural?

We human beings have evolved up to that point that most of out actions could be considered as "not natural" if you compare them to the actions of other species (although homosecuality does occur in the animal kingdom).

One could even argue; "Hey, humans are part of nature and some humans are homosexual. So homosexuality must be a part of nature."
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Old 10-28-2001, 07:37 AM   #43
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Oh, and this Hell House thing is ofcourse rediculous although I agree with them on the drinking/driving part.
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Old 10-28-2001, 11:07 AM   #44
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I agree with Marko on one point: I believe that abortion is murder as well, and, regarding the hell house, that was probably the least inflammatory condemnation of them all, with the least amount of stereotypes. However, that was the isolated incident in that disastrous "Hell House."

But, regarding the "natural" vs. "unnatural" argument, I think humans need to reevaluate what is "natural." For instance, in nature, sexuality is incredibly diverse. Not only are there XY females (Jamie Lee Curtis, for instance, is one), not only are there the intersexed (a.k.a., pseudohermaphrodism), and not only does homosexuality naturally and regularly occur in the animal kingdom. All of these are "nature"; none of these occurances can be forced upon people, nor can people be "cured" of it, but that those who have been called to be these in birth live completely normal and productive lives. In fact, the only trouble they may encounter is ridicule from those who have arbitarily labelled them "unnatural."

I think what people fail to understand is that sexuality is an incredibly complex part of our genetics that not even scientists can fully understand. For instance, there is all this controversy over a "gay gene," but no one has found the "straight gene" either. And what we do know regarding sexuality in-utero is that it is a very chaotic process, requiring several genes, not to mention several hormones. You must realize that every fetus develops both female and male reproductive tracts, and one missing gene or one missing hormone, and that human idea of what is "natural" is gone. I encourage everyone to pick up a college-level introductory genetics book. It's quite enlightening, to say the least.

That, however, doesn't mean that these people are "unnatural," nor should we judge them for what is an act of God. I think God's idea of "natural" is different, as evidenced by His design of nature, and it is our challenge to think beyond what humans have constrained God to be.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-28-2001, 12:34 PM   #45
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Sory I have to draw back that "unnatural" thing I said. I have nothing against gays, but I fell "fisicly sick" on the thought about it, but on the other hand (and here I'm a big hipocryt) I love the thought of two gay girls in bed (off course they should be beautifull).

So sory once more, I'm aware of my mistake...
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