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Old 10-27-2001, 12:59 AM   #16
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Hey melon, don't close this yet... I agree with your perspective. Wanted to get this out before you had it locked.
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:02 AM   #17
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I'm not requesting it closed. I'm just hoping people will move onto other topics. Plus, forum veterans will remember the last two times I fought this topic. I have a feeling they won't want it to come up again, and I find it too exhausting to do that all again. Combine that with the fact that my original debate threads have been deleted during forum cleanups, and I really don't want to get into it again.

So, Interferencers, I ask you to look at my thread regarding suicide. What do you think?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:05 AM   #18
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It's just that it's all been done in this forum too many times. Everyone can cite valid evidence for their point of view on the topic, but it is something that we will never settle in this forum. If you are that worried about it (whichever "side" you are on) just pray about it rather than making a thread war about it. For the LOVE of GOD!

~U2Alabama
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:08 AM   #19
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I wasn't going to post my thoughts cause I didn't want to fuel a flamed folder, but here goes. I don't post in this forum cause it's an arena of its own, very scathing at times.

That website is sick...pure filth(oxy). What threw me off most, and I agree melon, is the topic of suicide. I get tired of suicide always being viewed as a "selfish" act. True it is selfish to those around you, but if that's the only way out you can see, then so be it. The church didn't sound like it was going to support the suicide example anyway. "What's the matter boy nobody loves you? Nobody cares for you?" Wow, that's pretty heartless. What options is the person given then?

[This message has been edited by wannabe (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:


So, Interferencers, I ask you to look at my thread regarding suicide. What do you think?

Melon

What was the Catholic justification for saying that suicide is automatically damned? Judas? Not exactly representative of the entire population of suicidal people.
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:14 AM   #21
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lmao teletubbies.

That site is pretty wacked I must say.. but its just a site and you know there are probly a billion sites out there that are wacked and screwed.. what can you do about it.

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Old 10-27-2001, 01:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
What was the Catholic justification for saying that suicide is automatically damned? Judas? Not exactly representative of the entire population of suicidal people.
Well, before Vatican II in the 1960s, it was Catholic tradition that anyone who kills themselves are automatically hellbound, because of that passage about Judas. Jesus reportedly says that even Judas was not beyond forgiveness, but, instead, he took his own life. The implication, henceforth, always was that those who committed suicide were automatically damned.

However, one forgets that when Judas did commit suicide, it was not out of mental illness, but rather, humiliation and pride. Plus, Catholicism has taken a negative stance on fundamentalism, and, since Vatican II, has decided to take in account that those who killed themselves might not be in a mental state where they would be responsible for their actions, and, as such, no longer passes judgment, reserving it only for God, rightfully where it belongs.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Well, before Vatican II in the 1960s, it was Catholic tradition that anyone who kills themselves are automatically hellbound, because of that passage about Judas. Jesus reportedly says that even Judas was not beyond forgiveness, but, instead, he took his own life. The implication, henceforth, always was that those who committed suicide were automatically damned.

However, one forgets that when Judas did commit suicide, it was not out of mental illness, but rather, humiliation and pride. Plus, Catholicism has taken a negative stance on fundamentalism, and, since Vatican II, has decided to take in account that those who killed themselves might not be in a mental state where they would be responsible for their actions, and, as such, no longer passes judgment, reserving it only for God, rightfully where it belongs.

Melon

But in UTEOTW, Bono sings

"In waves of regret, waves of joy
I reached out for the one I tried to destroy"

I guess that makes Bono a heretic, then.
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:29 AM   #24
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Originally posted by speedracer:
I guess that makes Bono a heretic, then.
LOL...I love Bono on religion. Probably regarding religion, both Bono and Moby are idols to me, although I don't agree with them for the sake of agreement. I have my own opinions, but, lots of the time, they tend to agree with what they both say.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:04 AM   #25
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i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:22 AM   #26
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Just out of curiousity, melon, have you emailed the site? I may, to question the church that is.

[This message has been edited by wannabe (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:27 AM   #27
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I am the lucky one, there is no god's plan in the dutch language.
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en:
i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*
You can think it's wrong, and I won't flame you nor get into why I disagree with you (forum veterans will remember the last two times I got into this ) but if you look at the way they present it in this site, it is completely done in a fashion that is stereotypical and full of lies. A maliciously crafted lie is far more "sinful."

If you want to show people "the truth," it's assumed you have to be "truthful." This site, by all accounts, fails in the "truthful" part.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by wannabe:
Just out of curiousity, melon, have you emailed the site? I may, to question the church that is.
Heh...e-mailing extremists are like talking to walls. Look how well the talks with the Taliban went in handing over bin Laden?
http://www.hellhouse.ms/information....20Hell%20House

There's the info on the denominations, BTW.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:44 AM   #30
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I am SO sick and tired of these idiots that use the phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner" to justify their intolerant, homophobe, bigotist remarks!!!

I myself am not a homosexual, so I can't speak for them directly, BUT I highly recommend that you go to this website and read the TRUTH about homosexuals!!

fallwell.com

It's time for us Christians to stand up and REJECT and DENOUNCE this bigoted view from the "Christian Coalition" and start DEFENDING our brothers and sisters!!! The following are just a few of the quotes from the "Christian Coalition" that are just totally unacceptable:
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"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
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"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, January 21, 1993, ignoring the fact that the Nazis killed homosexuals as ruthlessly as they did Jews
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"I have known few homosexuals who did not practice their tendencies. Such people are sinning against God and will lead to the ultimate destruction of the family and our nation. I am unalterably opposed to such things, and will do everything I can to restrict the freedom of these people to spread their contagious infection to the youth of our nation."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, May 24, 1994
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"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
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"I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993
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It makes me sick!! I'll just end with these two quotes that I STRONGLY support:

"The millions of Christians in this country reflect just about every conceivable political point of view. For one highly conservative group to proclaim itself 'the Christian Coalition' strikes me as decidedly un-Christian arrogance.... We reflect countless races, religions and lifestyles, and we often differ on questions of morality and behavior. The only way so diverse a nation can survive is by all of us practicing a high degree of tolerance. But tolerance is not the way of the Christian right. Its leaders want to impose their one-size-fits-all morality on everyone. It won't work. When any group tries to impose its values on everyone else, the result will inevitably be resentment, hatred and violence."
--Senator Warren Rudman

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"Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Cor. 5:12-13).

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"I have a brother, when I'm a brother in need. I spend my whole time running. He spends his running after me."

[This message has been edited by A|catura (edited 10-26-2001).]
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