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Old 09-06-2005, 06:51 PM   #106
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


Are police officers not citizens too? How are we to know that they did not lose their homes, loved ones, etc? I don't think it's fair to judge them.

So when the nuke plant goes up.....and I am sitting there with 650 students to evacuate....you will forgive me for running?

Sorry, there is an oath to assist protect and defend when one becomes a police officer....
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:00 PM   #107
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This is sad

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/pol....ap/index.html
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:00 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


So when the nuke plant goes up.....and I am sitting there with 650 students to evacuate....you will forgive me for running?

Sorry, there is an oath to assist protect and defend when one becomes a police officer....
If you had resigned properly, like those that turned in their badges, what could anyone do?
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:02 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


So when the nuke plant goes up.....and I am sitting there with 650 students to evacuate....you will forgive me for running?

Sorry, there is an oath to assist protect and defend when one becomes a police officer....
Sorry, there is also an expectation that when things go to hell you will be provided with back-up.

And I do believe police officers are allowed to resign.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:10 PM   #110
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Originally posted by Irvine511




no one blames the Bush administration for the occurence of these events, but they blame the Bush administration for not taking the steps to either prevent them in the first place


but watch them try. just watch them pin this on the mayor and the governor and Sen. Landrieu.


I do blame the mayor and the governor for not taking the steps to prevent the severity of what occured in New Orleans. It was a hurricane. The majority of the deaths were drownings. In rising flood waters, these deaths occured in minutes. The mayor and the governor didn't take the steps that would have prevented these deaths. They drowned because of the lack of or poorly executed evacuation plan.

If they had evacuated...which is a local responsibility....these people would be alive....there wouldn't have been a need for a rescue effort. The majority of the deaths should be be pinned on the mayor and the governor. The federal response (in itself inept) followed the initial ineptness of the local government...and like you said, "for not taking the steps to either prevent them in the first place"


And four years after 9/11....our intelligence community didn't know that there were English students that would bomb London either. So is that Bush's fault? Is it Blair's fault? I don't believe that it is. It is a very large world...and chances are even next time we won't know the who, what or when. For all we know, they could be meeting tonight at a pub in Georgetown or at a coffee shop on Spring Street in Williamstown. Intelligence can't be everywhere monitoring everyone. It is not an exact science.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:22 PM   #111
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Originally posted by Westport
For all we know, they could be meeting tonight at a pub in Georgetown or at a coffee shop on Spring Street in Williamstown.


have you spent much time in Williamstown?

i went to school there.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:30 PM   #112
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Lots of time...my Dad went to Williams and we own a house on Main Street. Going back in October.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:44 PM   #113
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The New Orleans Police Department doesn't want them back anyway. Apparently, 1/3 or so of the force is missing- some no doubt killed, and 2 confirmed suicides, but majority being those who are derelict of duty. They were saying on TV most would rather resign than trust in them again.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:51 PM   #114
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Sadly, the partisan board at FYM does not seem to care that there are SO MANY POPLE WHO FAILED the CITIZENS, they would prefer to blame Bush than look at the entire picture.
I disagree strongly. I think most people here have made it clear that there have been numerous failures on all fronts of this disaster. The fact of the matter is that this did happen, and after it did, the response time to save people from dying was pathetic, and you have to put the blame for that primarily on the President. Were there other failures? Of course. On all sides due to many different variables involved. But afterwards - the straightforward fact is that the response time was not acceptable, as the President himself has acknowledged, and that is what most people are angry about.
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Old 09-06-2005, 08:21 PM   #115
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Part of anger towards Bush, I think, is the perceived reaction he gave this time.

I didn't vote for Bush, but I think he did a great job in the aftermath of 9/11. He united the country, showed genuine compassion and leadership.

This time, he does a cursory fly over of New Orleans in Air Force One. And when he does land, he talks about how great it will be to sit on Trent Lott's new porch, tells FEMA guy "Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job" and remembers the "too fun" times he had in New Orleans. At the same time, I can see bloated corpses on CNN.

It just seems like he didn't "get it" for a long time.
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:34 PM   #116
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Again, Dreadsox' point regarding the local control over the school bus fleet is that the City and/or State should have began utilizing them Friday, Saturday and Sunday, August 26-28, BEFORE the Hurricane hit.

But ignoring that, we blame Bush for the failures and choose to ignore the other agencies' shortfalls , because, well, it's FYM and it's more fun to do that.

~U2Alabama
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:39 PM   #117
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It's not just that, Kelly. It's the fact that all he had to do was turn on the TV to see for himself that by Wednesday, the locals had lost all ability to control things and he should have used every emergency power at his disposal, up to and including an emergency airlifts and manadatory commandeering of bus fleets, etc, to sieze control of the situation. (as well as sending that big hospital ship that was hanging aorund in the Gulf Coast that had 6 operating rooms, several hundred beds and 100,000 gallons of fresh water) etc. He is VERY good at finding loopholes in federal laws when it serves his purpose (such as the way he appointed John Bolton to the UN position) and "inventing" ones for situations where there isn't one (Iraq, for starters).

It's a question of timing and priorities. Renquist's death was announced Sat evening, and he somehow found 40 minutes to talk to Roberts on Sunday in the middle of all this (He probalby hasn't even addressed Iraq for a week, even as Queda takes over a whole town and flies its flag over their City Hall, and insurgents raid the Interior Ministry--I hope he also found time to send a condolance letter to the interim Iraqi Govt over the bridge tragedy?) and then announced him as the successor to the Chief Justice at the crack of 7 AM Monday. Granted, choosing a Chief Justice is a lot easier than coordinating a Marshall Plan to to save a city, but we have to look at the speed and the timing here. 36 hours? Plus, we have to marvel at the sudden all-out saturation on the media, Team Bush to the affected areas, the lightning speed with which the "all-out hurricane war" (as one White House Spokesman calls it --I'll bet it was Karl Rove) is being conducted. Where was this speed, this urgency, last week? When it serves his self-interest, it's amazing what W can do.

It seems that promoting his agenda on the Court is more important to him personally, than saving lives. Sorry to be so partisan here, but like I said in another thread here, I was initially ready to cut him some slack on this one, even feel sorry for him. That feeling evaporated by Thursday afternoon.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:02 PM   #118
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Hey Dreadsox, read this one, courtesy of the ultra-conservative Salt Lake City Tribune. SOmeone posted it in another thread.

www.sltrib.com/ci_3004197

And I suppose those who choose to turn in their FEMA ID's as a result of this, refeusing to serve, will be demonized later by the Feds as having deserted the country in a time of great need. I'm sure they will alert America to the fact that they refused to "aid the victims." Remember, they can't be deployed to the area unless they do this.

Is this part of the reason why he doesn't want to focus on finding answers right now? So he can cover his ass at the local level, starting with "neutralizing" the victims themselves. And you think he does not suspect that his horse-show buddy at FEMA may not have a lot to hide.

Read those last 2 paragraphs, Dread, I dare you to.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:10 PM   #119
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Bama, HOW do you use a fleet of 200 school buses to evactuate 100,000+ people? (450,000---three fourths had cars and left. That;s how many stayed put.) Lets say each bus holds 50 people each, and each city bus 80. That's still less than 10,000 people. How do you decude who stays and who goes? How do you have the power to remove people from their homes who don't want to leave? HOW do you carry on such a massive evacuation with so few rescources???
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:40 PM   #120
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I wonder if they could have moved any more people out of the city with the school buses. By federal law, you must have a special liscence to drive those buses and of course must be trained. Once the order to evacuate was given, most school bus drivers likely escaped with their familys, leaving no one to drive the buses.

For those that did stay behind, the initial storm killed a few (in New Orleans). The flash flood when the levees broke killed many right away, then killed many more (and continues to kill) as the survivors waited to be rescued.

I am only speculating now, but it is likely that local police worked nonstop for 48 or more hours of physical duty without relief until emotionally and physically exhausted. With no place to lie down and rest, no backup officers (all on duty), no communications (poor planning all around) and no sign of relief from the feds they did what they had to do as mortal humans.....evacuate themselves. Many may have felt guilty about abandoning survivors and resigned. Two commited suicide that we know of.
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