Blair warns against Scottish independence

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Do the economics justify it?

Why sever links with the second largest financial centre in the world?

Or maybe the Scots feel they don't benefit from it.
 
Well if I was a Scot I would probably want independence.....the Scots are a very dynamic people and I'm pretty sure they would have no trouble as an independent nation...i'm not sure but if Scotland became independent I think the North sea oil would fall primarily within its territorial waters...but the oil reserves I believe are reducing quite fast.

Issues would be that there are a lot of high profile Scottish MPs in parliament...Gordon Brown for instance in line to be the next prime minister.
 
Scotland already has it's own banking laws, criminal laws, legal system, education system and limited parliament. Probably more autonomy than say California has from the Union, would you support independence for California and every other state.
 
I'm Scottish and i DO NOT want independence :no: :scream: :angry:


Plus i cannot stand Alex Salmond! :censored: :rant: :barf:


Just thought i'd make my opinion clear :D
 
The english have been subsidising the scottish for far too long. They are the fattest people in Europe and have been draining the NHS for far too long.

However surely we are stronger if we stick together.

Btw Blair was born in scotland and so was Gordon Brown. Scotland already Rule Britain.
 
susanp6 said:

Plus i cannot stand Alex Salmond! :censored: :rant: :barf:

:laugh: I've only ever seen him on things like Question Time and I don't mind him even if he does seem a bit smug and patronising.

vaz02 said:
Scotland already Rule Britain.

Very true- plus it was a Scotsman (James VI/I) who first suggested the whole idea of a United Kingdom (it failed at the time because the English and Scots hated each other. Oh how times change! :wink: ) so if they aren't happy with it now they've only got themselves to blame! (I'm joking).

Seriously, I don't think the UK can go on as it is. Something will have to change. You can't have such huge differences between countries of the Union. Why should Scotland's NHS have drugs available that you can't get anywhere else in the UK? Why should Scotland's NHS provide free services that the rest of the UK won't? And, my old favourite, why the f**k should Scotland not have tuition fees but the rest of the UK does? (Something that would NOT have happened if SCOTTISH MPs hadn't voted for it!!).

But I know that nothing will change- an English Parliament will never happen, the Scottish MPs that seem to control Westminster at the minute would never allow it.

So long as these huge differences between Scotland and England remain then, no, I don't want Scottish Independence- I want moving there to be as easy as possible for me!! :wink:
 
vaz02 said:
The english have been subsidising the scottish for far too long.

This is a bit off topic but why do we never hear anything about English Independence? We all hear about Welsh/Scottish/Irish Nationalism but never English (well nothing apart from the usual "I'm English not British", "I want an English Parliament" stuff).

If any country in the UK could leave the Union most successfully it'd be England. Is it that we don't have that same sense of national pride that the rest of them do? Is it that we don't have that same sense of union (North-South divide, East-West split, Regional pride etc.)? Is it because the British Government has been based in London for donkey's years so it's easier for us to feel British as well as English?

Why don't we just cut loose the 'baggage' (I'm looking at this through the eyes of an Engish Nationlist- I'm not voicing my own opinion!) and see what happens in a UK where there is no England hate figure for other countries to rally against and no English cash either! Personally, I do seriously wonder what would happen without England in the UK, would nationalism in the remaining countries fade or increase?
 
The UK is more or less England, generally the money and power is English based, even if it is run by Scots:p. If England left there would be no 'UK'. Nationalism here wouldn't decline, unionism would disappear off the face of the earth as there wouldn't be a union to fight for, Ireland would be united....so yeah i'm all for English Independence:wink:
 
Aye, fight and you may die, run, and you'll live... at least for a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!
 
vaz02 said:
The english have been subsidising the scottish for far too long. They are the fattest people in Europe and have been draining the NHS for far too long.

However surely we are stronger if we stick together.

Btw Blair was born in scotland and so was Gordon Brown. Scotland already Rule Britain.


Sounds like an insult to me :|


I think that there seems to be some people in England who resent Scotland for no good reason at all quite frankly, and if you ask me it's plain envy of us much of the time :p :der:


It just makes me so mad whenever i hear talk like this and the old arguments of people disrespecting my country :mad:


We're the most generous country, not tight as we've been painted by ignorants :no: i mean we donated the biggest amount of money to the Tsunami fund, in relation to the population :yes: :D
 
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susanp6 said:

and if you ask me it's plain envy of us much of the time :p :der:

TheQuiet1 said:
Seriously, I don't think the UK can go on as it is. Something will have to change. You can't have such huge differences between countries of the Union. Why should Scotland's NHS have drugs available that you can't get anywhere else in the UK? Why should Scotland's NHS provide free services that the rest of the UK won't? And, my old favourite, why the f**k should Scotland not have tuition fees but the rest of the UK does? (Something that would NOT have happened if SCOTTISH MPs hadn't voted for it!!).

There was a thing just now on the local news about Berwick which (in case any of you don't know) sits on the England-Scotland border. It's an English town but there's a lot of people there who increasingly want to move over to the Scottish side and are doing so for precisely the reasons I gave about the NHS and education. So it really wouldn't surprise me if you're right Susan about English envy (heck, I know I'm envious!) and how easily envy is turning into straight out resentment.
 
:giggle: the way you put that sounds so funny and i know all about Berwick! :yes: :lol: yes, about how it used to be in Scotland but you know what Q1? You definitely are the kind of English person i do like ;) This is how i wish we could all be! :wink:


Oh and i'm definitely fed up with resentment of us from some people :|
 
TheQuiet1 said:




There was a thing just now on the local news about Berwick which (in case any of you don't know) sits on the England-Scotland border. It's an English town but there's a lot of people there who increasingly want to move over to the Scottish side and are doing so for precisely the reasons I gave about the NHS and education. .

Isn't that the town that still's technically at war with Russia :confused:
I must admit I haven't got a strong opinion on Scottish independence. There must be some good economic arguments for keeping it in the Union but if the majority of Scots are in favour of independence (isn't there talk of a referendum?) then I think it should go it alone. It does irritate me though that Scottish MPs can vote on purely English matters in parliament but not vice versa.

TheQuiet1 said:

If any country in the UK could leave the Union most successfully it'd be England. Is it that we don't have that same sense of national pride that the rest of them do? Is it that we don't have that same sense of union (North-South divide, East-West split, Regional pride etc.)? Is it because the British Government has been based in London for donkey's years so it's easier for us to feel British as well as English

I agree the English don't seem to be as patriotic as a nation as the Scots, Welsh, Irish or most nations for that matter. It's almost as if we're embarrassed to show our support for our country. The only time we seem to do so is when we've got a fighting chance in a sports event like the World Cup when everywhere gets Union Jack fever until we lose :wink: It's interesting though that during the World cup there was all the hype about Scots routing for any side playing against England, (at least according to the papers) wheareas when a Scot is doing well such as Andrew Murray he seems to get support from the rest of the UK as well.
 
Excuse me, but it's a BRITISH parliament in London, not an English one - why oh why do so many people in the south especially keep on saying that?
:mad: we have Scottish MP's down there 'cos that's where our major decisions are made!!!!


Westminster more or less controls Scotland, since the Scottish parliament doesn't do all that much really and it's also a complete waste of all the money&a rubbish building too :huh:
 
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Greenlight said:


Isn't that the town that still's technically at war with Russia :confused:
I must admit I haven't got a strong opinion on Scottish independence. There must be some good economic arguments for keeping it in the Union but if the majority of Scots are in favour of independence (isn't there talk of a referendum?) then I think it should go it alone.

They signed a peace treaty a few years back. The Berwick mayor told the Russian official, "Please tell the Russian people that they can now sleep safely in their beds at night." :lol:

Scotland contributes trillions to the British economy (a huge amount for a nation of just 5 million) but I don't know how much it takes back out of the British economy so perhaps it balances out :shrug: Scotland's big problem if it ever went it alone though would be as LJT says, those North Sea oil and gas reserves are quickly running out; cutting off a major source of revenue and it would be hard to maintain the UK lifestyle the Scots are accustomed to (the welfare system, the NHS and so on) without a truly large source of income.

Whatever happens it's certainly something the Government (British or Scottish) needs to bear in mind. We all know the devastating effect the collapse of industry had on many parts of the UK, and really these places are only just starting to get over it now, often by encouraging the growth of sunrise industries. If I think of Yorkshire as an example it's actually a major area for electronic media (a lot of British game developers are based here if Yorkshire Forward is to be believed at any rate!) but I don't know if Scotland has had that same zeal for sunrise industries if it's always had the oil and gas reserves to fall back on. Of-course, like Yorkshire, it's always got tourism to rake in the billions but that can only go so far and you don't want to end up like Cornwall where people are unemployed during the off-season.

I think I stopped making sense after the opening paragraph but do you know what I mean? From an outsider's point of view it seems Scotland is heavily reliant on a source of income that's quickly running out and they're going to have to come up with a new source of income for the future. There you go! I summed it up clearly in one sentence! Typical me after I've typed all this lot out!
 
susanp6 said:
it's also a complete waste of all the money&a rubish building too :huh:

Yeah, that's certainly a unique look it's got! I always think of cows whenever I see that strange pattern on the side of it... (I am thinking of the right building...aren't I?)
 
susanp6 said:

Westminster more or less controls Scotland, since the Scottish parliament doesn't do all that much really and it's also a complete waste of all the money&a rubbish building too :huh:

Oh! I have another question! (Sorry but as you're the only Scot here!) Do I take it you'd happily see it scrapped then? And do a lot of Scots share that view?
 
:yes: You are thinking of the right building Q1 yes! :wink: actually i always think it looks just like a school or a library, not the supposed great Scottish Parliament that cost almost 1 billion!!! :tsk: so yeah that's 1 Scot buiding i'm not particularly proud of but hey! There's plenty others :up:
 
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You mean the Scottish parliament? Hmmm probably and i'm not quite sure as to wether a recent poll has been done on if we'd get rid of it, but i'm not too keen on it and i think most people up here do share the opinion that it doesn't do nearly enough but i could be talking rubbish :shrug:
 
susanp6 said:
Excuse me, but it's a BRITISH parliamen'''''''''''t in London, not an English one - why oh why do so many people in the south especially keep on saying that?
:mad: we have Scottish MP's down there 'cos that's where our major decisions are made!!!!


Well I agree that's true for the vast majority of decisions made which obviously affect all the UK but when it's purely an English issue such as the introduction of uni tuition fees in England :mad: which wouldn't have got passed if the Scottish MPs hadn't been able to vote on it, then I don't think they should be able to on such occasions.

I think I stopped making sense after the opening paragraph but do you know what I mean? From an outsider's point of view it seems Scotland is heavily reliant on a source of income that's quickly running out and they're going to have to come up with a new source of income for the future. There you go! I summed it up clearly in one sentence! Typical me after I've typed all this lot out : [/B]


IT does make sense! I agree Scotland's ability to be economically self-reliant is the key issue. I wonder too what effect Blair's commitment to replace Trident will have on it.
 
Fair comment :up:


Trident - don't get me started on that :madspit: i live quite close to those nuclear subs and they scare the hell out of me, esp when i clapped eyes on one once :yikes:
 
TheQuiet1 said:


:lol: :wink:

How are you by the way? Your A levels going OK?

I'm pretty good, the A levels are going fine thankin you*bows* I have a chem exam tomorrow though. Hows your wonderful self?

Actually I will be in Scotland next Wednesday, Glasgow to be precise, I have a Medicine interview with the uni.

When the North Sea oil runs out I imagine the Scottish economy would model itself a bit on Irelands, attracting major corporations to base their operations there, such as the way Microsofts European headquarters are in Dublin.
 
LJT said:


I'm pretty good, the A levels are going fine thankin you*bows* I have a chem exam tomorrow though. Hows your wonderful self?

Actually I will be in Scotland next Wednesday, Glasgow to be precise, I have a Medicine interview with the uni.

When the North Sea oil runs out I imagine the Scottish economy would model itself a bit on Irelands, attracting major corporations to base their operations there, such as the way Microsofts European headquarters are in Dublin.

I'm going good thanks. I'm trying to set up some voluntary work and waiting on some information on public service Apprenticeships to be sent to me. Plus thanks to the TV adverts, I've also discovered the Learn Direct website, which looks like it could be mighty useful :up: I finally feel as if I can get all this to come together I might not just be getting some focus back in my life but also might just be working towards a career that I'll actually enjoy. :) (I'm being Positive Katie today :wink: )

Good luck with the chemistry exam and the uni interview :hug: I'm sure it'll go great :up: (again, I'm being Positive Katie today :wink: )

About the Scottish economy I also wonder if it ever became independent maybe it could do very well out of EU subsidies. At the minute the UK is just behind Germany in terms of how much it contributes financially to the EU (which is fair enough as Germany and the UK are the biggest economies in the EU) so if Scotland left the EU it might just get a lot more EU funding... :hmm:
 
Maybe you could be the first PM of an independent England?:wink:
 
Susan i wasnt disrespecting your country , i was mearly stating the fact.

Jack McConnell - First Minister of the scottish parliment

Called the Scottish “one of the most unhealthy countries in Europe,” with a culture of “lack of exercise, drugs abuse, excessive drinking and over
eating.”

Now thats a real drain on the NHS like it or not.
 
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