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Old 01-21-2002, 10:51 PM   #16
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I have yet to see this movie but I have read the book. I am an avid reader and tend to read at a rediculous pace but I could not digest this book quickly. It was so graphic I had to put it down on several occasions. I don't know if I would be able to sit through the movie. The book really was good though. My boyfriend is an ex Army Ranger so I knew the story long ago. (He was in Kosovo and Columbia when he was in) He has seen some horrific stuff and the book bothered him as well. Ah, I do not think the book was racist, I'm not sure why that is really being addressed. The event happened, it is a reality. A Delta force solider was dragged through the streets by his heels.
As for why the director choose not to put this scene in the film, well, the real picture exists. Perhaps R Scott felt it would have been in bad taste. I'd have to agree then.
Anyway, was the film very graphic?
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Old 01-21-2002, 11:17 PM   #17
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways:
I have yet to see this movie but I have read the book. I am an avid reader and tend to read at a rediculous pace but I could not digest this book quickly. It was so graphic I had to put it down on several occasions. I don't know if I would be able to sit through the movie. The book really was good though. My boyfriend is an ex Army Ranger so I knew the story long ago. (He was in Kosovo and Columbia when he was in) He has seen some horrific stuff and the book bothered him as well. Ah, I do not think the book was racist, I'm not sure why that is really being addressed. The event happened, it is a reality. A Delta force solider was dragged through the streets by his heels.
As for why the director choose not to put this scene in the film, well, the real picture exists. Perhaps R Scott felt it would have been in bad taste. I'd have to agree then.
Anyway, was the film very graphic?
I think a lot of people are calling the movie racist because it does not really delve into any of the Somali's lives, and just presents them as a Mass of people, I for one, did not find it to be racist, as like I posted above, there wasn't much diving into teh lives of the American soldiers, .. I think BIll O Reily addressed the complaints by many of all this racial hullabaloo.. Check my post at the top...

As for the film, It was very graphic, and at the same time, was not as graphic as it could have been, and almost in necessity to remind the american public of this horrific affair, as graphic as it needed to be, but needless to say, It didn't realy hide anything, there's plenty of disturbing scenes...

I'm wanting to read the book, I'll probably have to hit it up during spring break, cuz I've got biochemistry biting on my heels.. Yes.. Jsut a little life history of L. Unplugged for you.

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Old 01-22-2002, 12:58 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
I'm sure it'll be labeled propaganda, and it already has by suelwasgirl, but It reminds us of how Brutal war is..
Kindly refrain from putting incorrect words in my mouth. I stated my empathy with the fears of a local minority population and said that I am not interested in seeing the movie. How this amounts to "labelling it propaganda" is beyond ridiculous. It also might behoove you to learn how to spell. For future reference the nick would be sulawesigirl and if it's too long and complicated I'm sure just "sula" will suffice.
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Old 01-22-2002, 03:28 AM   #19
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Lemonite;

Personally, I never bought the stuff they suggested in the DIRECTOR'S CUT of Bladerunner, so I ignored it. However, Bladerunner is still my favourite sci-fi film of all time.

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Old 01-22-2002, 09:04 AM   #20
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Kindly refrain from putting incorrect words in my mouth. I stated my empathy with the fears of a local minority population and said that I am not interested in seeing the movie. How this amounts to "labelling it propaganda" is beyond ridiculous. It also might behoove you to learn how to spell. For future reference the nick would be sulawesigirl and if it's too long and complicated I'm sure just "sula" will suffice.
Ah, The difficulties of trying to type under the influence of Speed, igniting room curtains, and flaming pumpkins,
Thanks for clearing up your position,
And also, please if you're going to insult someone, using the ol' 'Lern too Spel', is cheap and does nothing fire back with any sort of 'got you last ammo'. However I had spelled your 'Code NAme', SULA is just as much a wrong spelling, Keep us on the same page miss girl.. either you want your name spelled right or any form of it will do.. If you were put off by it, I wasn't intending any harm, or insultation to you and in no way was I criticizing you, Is just echoing your statements drawing from your post.. you cleared up your position.. all is fine... But I just think that you're insulted that I didn't give the time to 'spell check' my response to your thread.

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-22-2002).]
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Old 01-22-2002, 11:37 AM   #21
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Actually, unlike yourself, I attempt to make it a practice not to indulge in "tactics", cheap or otherwise, and if you think that my correction of your mispelling of my name was one, then it's something that you are reading INTO my actions. In my opinion, it's just common courtesy to spell names as correctly as possible and to do otherwise displays a lack of respect for the person you are addressing. Finally, "sula" is a shortened form of "sulawesigirl" a nickname as it may be...not a corruption of the spelling. Hope this clarifies any misconceptions you may still continue to hold.
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Old 01-22-2002, 12:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Actually, unlike yourself, I attempt to make it a practice not to indulge in "tactics", cheap or otherwise, and if you think that my correction of your mispelling of my name was one, then it's something that you are reading INTO my actions. In my opinion, it's just common courtesy to spell names as correctly as possible and to do otherwise displays a lack of respect for the person you are addressing. Finally, "sula" is a shortened form of "sulawesigirl" a nickname as it may be...not a corruption of the spelling. Hope this clarifies any misconceptions you may still continue to hold.
All cleared from the apparently innocent Miss sulawesigirl#4.
Now Back to the Thread!

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Old 01-22-2002, 12:52 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
Somalia is a nation that harbors terrorists.. Hence, they are against us.. hence.. (yes hence again).. the bad guys... Free your mind.
Free your mind indeed.

I would like to know what your definition of "they" are. "They", all the Somalis? I'm sure Awale and his wife Hodan, say average dirt-poor farmers, and their 7 children, half of whom will die before the age of 5 are "against you" and henceforth "bad guys."

Free your mind, indeed.

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Old 01-22-2002, 01:29 PM   #24
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Originally posted by anitram:
Free your mind indeed.

I would like to know what your definition of "they" are. "They", all the Somalis? I'm sure Awale and his wife Hodan, say average dirt-poor farmers, and their 7 children, half of whom will die before the age of 5 are "against you" and henceforth "bad guys."

Free your mind, indeed.

The United States, as an extension of the UN, first worked to relieve a devestating famine in Somalia and then tried to rid the country of the war lords responsible for starving the people. As a result, clan loyalities to these miserable war lords, who gained loyalty, by the way, by addicting Somali people to a local drug, the people of Mogadishu began to resent the United States' interference.
When US Ranger troops attempted to rid Mogadishu of one particular war lord, his name escapes me (his last name begins with an A) violence errupted. The Somali people were, in fact, defending the man responsible for withholding UN foodstuffs causing starvation again.
Now, since these "dirt poor farmers" that the UN and the US attempted to help by ending a famine suddenly meet US troops with AK 47's, damn straight they are the "bad guys." Men, women and childrem were armed. Most of the children were unalble to hold the AK properly because of its weight.
This was not a few people who took to the streets, it was 1000's.
This is not to say that the entire country and all of it's citizens are aiming AK 47's at the United States, but since there is no established goverment and many terrorist groups run Somalia, it must be considered a threat to the United States.
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Old 01-22-2002, 01:42 PM   #25
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways:
Now, since these "dirt poor farmers" that the UN and the US attempted to help by ending a famine suddenly meet US troops with AK 47's, damn straight they are the "bad guys." Men, women and childrem were armed. Most of the children were unalble to hold the AK properly because of its weight.
This was not a few people who took to the streets, it was 1000's.
This is not to say that the entire country and all of it's citizens are aiming AK 47's at the United States, but since there is no established goverment and many terrorist groups run Somalia, it must be considered a threat to the United States.
Assume there were "thousands" of armed men, women and children in the streets. There are also 9.5 million other people in Somalia. To say "damn straight they are bad guys" is a dangerous statement. You later on say, that "not all of its citizens were holding AK-47s" when the truth is that a tiny % of the whole population was. As Sula said, this movie could be potentially offensive to a Somali, because it does precisely what some people have stated on this thread, that is to refer to "them" as "bad", "against us" and so on. As you have stated, Somalia is an established threat to the US. I ask you, in your eyes, who/what is Somalia? The vast majority of people, who live in temporary settlements, and are still nomadic, who don't know how to read, and most certainly have nothing to do with supporting terrorism, as they are a little preoccupied with trying to find food for their children? Draw a parallel with Afghanistan. The majority of the population are poor people who would be happy just to live until tomorrow, who have no political interests, who do not invite or harbor terrorists, nor have anything to do with them. When you see Somalia as a threat, think about what the majority of Somalis really are - decent people - just like you and I may be.

Generalizations are dangerous things. When Billy Graham's son stated that "The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion," would Osama bin Laden be justified in saying that since Franklin Graham and his followers harbor an intolerance for Islam, then it's true that all Americans are "bad" and "threats to us?" Think about it, because it cuts both ways, and that's why a generalization is never good.

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Old 01-23-2002, 03:06 AM   #26
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The fact is that thousands of Somali people did attack US forces. Granted this is a small percentage of the population. However, just because the percentage is small does not mean that threat does not exist. The unstabiltiy in that region, as well as places such as Afganistan, is a problem. Do you not agree? I am not so ignorant to think that every person from Afganistan is a terrorist. I also do not think that every person from Somalia is anti American. The United Nations Humanitarian effort to relieve the famine in that region was in large part successful. After the United Nations left the area conditions worsened due to corrupt "leaders." I was in no way implying that the entire country/population is a threat. I do consider someone aiming an automatic rifle at a US troop a threat. Moreover, the threat stems from the fact that the country harbors terrorists that kill Americans, Brits, French, German, Japanese, and not to mention far greater numbers of thier own people!
I have yet to see the film but as stated before I have read the book. It was neither racist or generalizing. In fact, it was specific, almost confusing because of the great number of people mentioned. I consider myself to be well informed on the events leading up to and following that day in October. Being that someone close to me is an Army Ranger I have strong feelings about anyone wanting to point a gun at him. I don't really care where they are from.
Perhaps people should not make judgements when they hear information second hand. I am just asking that if one is going to condem the book or film as racist or generalizing the Somali people then at least read it or see it first.
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:42 PM   #27
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Well, I saw the film today and I thought it was well worth my money; it was an accurate description of warfare, without any pretenses about character development all in the name of emotionally manipulating the audience, I think their approach was just fine. And no, I didn't think it was at all rascist.


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