Bishops Want to Ban Kerry from Communion - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-02-2004, 10:06 PM   #31
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 320
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Hmmm...lot of bitter angry people here.

I am planning on joining the Catholic Church this Easter and am perfectly happy about it (and this isn't a light decision..spent most of two years and six months in the RCIA class before making up my mind.) I know about all the problems and dissected them and turned them inside and out... all but maybe I just had really good teachers and a really good priest who explained things really well...and to my satisfaction.

I just love to read these kinds of posts though..quite interesting.

dream wanderer
__________________

__________________
dream wanderer is offline  
Old 04-03-2004, 09:46 AM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 01:30 PM
1st Congratulations on joining the Church. I hope you are very happy with your decision.

MyDad, the man who decided to marry my mother, and adopted me was supposed to become a priest. On top of the fine education he gave me about the church, I attended parochial school.

Finally, my wife and I attended 2 1/2 years of RCIA classes together. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to do it with her.

I am not sure what you mean about problems being turned inside and out....

I think when you have been married for five+ years and you are told you have to make a confession that you are in a state of sin by violating church law it is a pretty tough thing to swallow. But I did. Then we were told to live in separate rooms as brother and sister for almost 8 weeks until our marriage could be blessed. Then less than a year later we find out the priest we confessed to was molesting children. the church settled on his case, and settled quickly.

My Dad, the man who had been through the seminary on deciding to marry my "divorced mother" no longer received communion for 10 years. I do not think it was easy for them. They took my sister and I to mass EVERY SUNDAY.

Now, some priests do not make their parishoners jump through these hoops. Some priests do show compassion and do either educate or take a different approach. The priest that delt with us educated us. The ONLY reason he married us was the following conversaion.

ME: Father I want to get married on Tuesday night April ____.

FATHER: I can;t marry you yet, you need to have marriage classes.

ME: Father we have been married for the past 5 1/2 years, why do we need classes.

FATHER: I am sorry, but you really need to take pre-cainan9SP) classes.

ME: Father, I have attended the RCIA classes with my wife for two years. WQe made our confession almost 8 weeks ago and have been living as brother and sister as you made us promise. Now you want us to take classes in marriage. Father I am sorry, but if you make us go any longer, I am NOT sure how much longer I am going to be able to keep my word to you. We do not need classes we need to bre married, we have done everything you have asked for the past two years.

FATHER: But....

ME: No buts father, we will be married. Maybe the vow of celibacy is easy for you, but my wife and I will not live as "brother and sister" any longer 8 weeks is enough.

FATHER: We will marry you on Tuesday.

ME: Thank you father.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I now attend the "Cathlolic Light" church (Episcopal). We have a female preist, the best I have had since my Congregational Minister from College. I am very happy.

The church supports Gay Civil Unions. The parishoners have not yet tackled the supbject of marriage. The parishoners have MUCH MUCH more say in the parish than I have ever encountered in the Catholic Church. My children are THRILLED to attend church now.

I am happier.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-03-2004, 10:26 AM   #33
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Congrats, dream wanderer! I went through RCIA and became a Catholic a few years back. I'm happy. My parish is blessed with kind and conscientious priests. I know that there are problems. It's a body made up of imperfect beings. There will be jerks and dunderheads in any group of people. The trick is learning the best way to handle these various difficult situations, using your conscience, and doing what suits you. I left the church I was raised in, so I understand why people leave churches and what it's like.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 04-03-2004, 03:49 PM   #34
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I now attend the "Cathlolic Light" church (Episcopal). We have a female preist, the best I have had since my Congregational Minister from College. I am very happy.

The church supports Gay Civil Unions. The parishoners have not yet tackled the supbject of marriage. The parishoners have MUCH MUCH more say in the parish than I have ever encountered in the Catholic Church. My children are THRILLED to attend church now.

I am happier.
The more I learn about Catholicism, the more I wonder if I really was ever "Catholic," in the philosophical sense. For all of my life, up to the last two or three years, I believed that Catholicism was a "liberal religion." I was pleased that they believed that science and religion were compatible, and I was also pleased with their stance against fundamentalism. I also believed that, through the precedent set by medieval Catholic scholars, that it was perfectly "moral" to disagree with church teachings, and still be in communion with the church, as one's "conscience" is supposed to be one's supreme moral guide--not the Vatican. Heck, even in the 1890s, the Vatican even said that liberalism and Catholicism were compatible; thus, in addition to Vatican II reforms, it was better to keep religion and politics separate, as to allow one's conscience to choose the way.

And now? I believe that they were never really sincere about it. I believe that their rejection of fundamentalism was only so they could put their "traditions" above the Bible--hence, if scholars discovered that the original Biblical texts meant something different, they could cry "tradition" to keep things the same. I'm upset with my old religion, not so much as I didn't like what they had to say, as much as I felt that they were betraying their own philosophy. The things that Dreadsox here describes--i.e., how the priest told them, as a married couple, that they were "living in sin"--I find to be totally repugnant, and if you asked me if it were repugnant ten years ago, I would have said the same thing.

I'm ultimately torn, because I find that my parents are part of that Catholic contingent that I can no longer be a part, due to my conscience: the Catholic who only goes to church because they feel they have to, not because they want to. I'm sorry; the Bible says "honor the Sabbath day," not "go to church." Towards the end, I started leaving so angry that I believe I was dishonoring the day by going. I know that there are many Catholics like me or my parents, but I am ultimately disappointed by their silence; they are too afraid to speak up against their hierarchy, since it is "tradition" to shut up and take the abuse.

And, like an abusive spouse, you're brought up to believe that once you're Catholic, you're always Catholic--e.g., you can never really leave. Sadly, I think I fall under that category. I don't know if I will ever be able to "leave" completely, and nor do I think I will ever find solace in organized religion ever again. I will never be atheist; my own faith experiences and feelings leads me to believe that God exists. But to be in a congregation of people that all have similar belief systems? I doubt I'll ever find it.

I can only wonder what life would have been like had I never been brought up or involved in this religion. In the meantime, I am only left to wander aimlessly and, to a degree, in bitterness; but I do believe that religion is forever ruined for me.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:15 AM   #35
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 10:30 AM
Kerry Ignores Reproaches of Some Bishops

Quote:
BOSTON, April 11 Rejecting the admonitions of several national Roman Catholic leaders, Senator John Kerry received communion at Easter services today at the Paulist Center here, a kind of New Age church that describes itself as "a worship community of Christians in the Roman Catholic tradition" and that attracts people drawn to its dedication to "family religious education and social justice."

Mr. Kerry's decision to receive communion represented a challenge to several prominent Catholic bishops, who have become increasingly exasperated with politicians who are Catholic but who deviate from Catholic teaching.

Mr. Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, supports abortion rights and stem cell research, both of which are contrary to church teaching. He and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, are regular worshipers at the Paulist Center, which is near their home on Beacon Hill.
When I saw this article, it got me thinking: does the Catholic Church even recognize communion taken outside the Catholic Church (for example, at a church where transubstantiation is not recognized)??
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:22 AM   #36
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:30 PM
To answer your question, nbcrusader, no, it does not recognize communion taken outside of the Catholic Church.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:27 AM   #37
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 10:30 AM
Thanks! I guess this makes the article a non-issue.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 12:52 PM   #38
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 12:30 PM
Does the Catholic church recognise anything outside the Catholic church? Now I know that sounds cynical, but I'm being serious.

It seems some of the most sacred practices such as marriage, communion, baptism, etc. are not recognised by the Catholic Church unless performed in the Catholic church. Is there anything the Catholic Church recognises that does not have to be done within the Catholic Church?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-12-2004, 01:06 PM   #39
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:30 PM
To answer your question BVS, yes, baptism outside of the Catholic Church is recognized by the Church as long as it is "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". When I converted I didn't have to get baptized because I was baptized a Protestant, and that was accepted as "baptism into the Church". I did have to get a baptismal certificate from the church where I was baptized proving I'd been baptized, but that was it. If you married outside of the Church, you can get your marriage "blessed" by the Church. This is potentially thorny. I haven't had any issues with this since I'm not married.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 01:12 PM   #40
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
To answer your question BVS, yes, baptism outside of the Catholic Church is recognized by the Church as long as it is "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". When I converted I didn't have to get baptized because I was baptized a Protestant, and that was accepted as "baptism into the Church". I did have to get a baptismal certificate from the church where I was baptized proving I'd been baptized, but that was it. If you married outside of the Church, you can get your marriage "blessed" by the Church. This is potentially thorny. I haven't had any issues with this since I'm not married.
So then why can't protestants take part in communion, I was always told it was because I wasn't baptised Catholic?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-12-2004, 04:29 PM   #41
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Does the Catholic church recognise anything outside the Catholic church? Now I know that sounds cynical, but I'm being serious.

It seems some of the most sacred practices such as marriage, communion, baptism, etc. are not recognised by the Catholic Church unless performed in the Catholic church. Is there anything the Catholic Church recognises that does not have to be done within the Catholic Church?
My marriage was not recognized because I was a Catholic and I married outside of the church without permission. I f I had received permission from the local bishop, I would have been fine. This means I sinned in the eyes of the church. My wife was not in a state of sin because she was not a Catholic to begin with.


As for commuinion, it has to do with transubstanciation. Catholics believe that the bread and whine are actually the body and blood of Christ. This is very different from other churches communion.

Baptism is recognized as Verte said.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 09:12 PM   #42
Refugee
 
BostonAnne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,052
Local Time: 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


As for commuinion, it has to do with transubstanciation. Catholics believe that the bread and whine are actually the body and blood of Christ. This is very different from other churches communion.

I was sent to Catholic CCD and to Catholic Mass while growing up, but had no parental guidance. We were just sent, no adult with us. I just can't imagine sending a child off to Church by him/herself. I never got this stuff like transubstantiation. As an adult, I just never felt worthy of going to Church. I hadn't confessed my sins and done 3 "Hail Mary's" (probably 1000+ Hail Mary's by now) to cleanse myself in order to participate in Communion.

I have attended and became a member of a Congregational Church since Sept 02 and these differences just blow my mind! The Pastor says, "All are Welcome" to participate in communion. Of course it took me a few communion days to actually participate because I still couldn't image that I could be allowed to. I also never imagined that I would actually enjoy going to Church on Sunday! (Now if I could only figure out a way to stop my kids from fighting with me about going.....)
__________________
BostonAnne is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 09:25 PM   #43
Refugee
 
BostonAnne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,052
Local Time: 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


And, like an abusive spouse, you're brought up to believe that once you're Catholic, you're always Catholic--e.g., you can never really leave. Sadly, I think I fall under that category. I don't know if I will ever be able to "leave" completely, and nor do I think I will ever find solace in organized religion ever again. I will never be atheist; my own faith experiences and feelings leads me to believe that God exists. But to be in a congregation of people that all have similar belief systems? I doubt I'll ever find it.


Melon
Melon,

I'm not sure that you will find a congregation of people that all have similar beliefs, but I'm sure you'll find a group of people within a congregation of people that will be close enough. At my Church, the Pastors and a lot of the members are perfect for me, but I know there are members that aren't so "No them, only us" in mind. Anyhow, you should hunt for a bit and see what happens. You may want to start at an Episcopalian church like Dread as it is stuctured closer to the Catholic traditions you are used to.

Give it a try!

BostonAnne
__________________
BostonAnne is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 09:25 PM   #44
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:30 PM
It's interesting, the problem I had with my church when I was growing up was that, like other Southern Protestant churches I was familiar with at the time, it was segregated as heck. After awhile my parents quit the church they were sending us to because of the politics. It was out in a small Alabama town near Birmingham and there was a freakin' KKK group in the area. (For the record, many integrated Protestant churches were formed in Alabama and the South during this era, but they weren't in my neighborhood, thus I didn't know they were out there). After this I grew up in a mostly secular environment, actually. When I was in college I met some Catholics who were into activist politics. They campaigned against the Klan, racism, and other injustices. I liked what they were doing and was attracted to their church. After a few years I joined their church. So, in terms of my background, the Catholic Church was more inclusive. I have heard that in other parts of the country the reverse is true.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 05-20-2004, 07:17 PM   #45
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 10:30 AM
Another Twist

Government telling the church what it should do?

48 Catholic congressmen warn bishops on bigotry

Quote:
Forty-eight Roman Catholic members of Congress have warned in a letter to Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington, D.C., that US bishops will revive anti-Catholic bigotry and severely harm the church if they deny Communion to politicians who support abortion rights.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com