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Old 09-27-2006, 05:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
The more I watch this interview, the more I think that Clinton's outburst was mostly calculated.
Of course it was calculated. It was genius. The whole thing was planned. Clinton's PR team has been on the offensive ever since. Bush is weak, and Clinton wants the Dems to capture Congress this fall, to improve Hillary's chances of winning the White House in 2008.

Bush received a memo 30 days before 9/11, entitled 'Al Qaeda Planning Attacks Inside US,' and did nothing.
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Old 09-27-2006, 05:25 PM   #32
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
"At least I tried"?

I would have to see the whole interview, but that's just lame.

You know what's about ten million times lamer??!!! George W. Bush, getting a CIA memo a month before 9/11, warning him of the attack, and not trying to stop it. That is lame.
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Old 09-27-2006, 06:36 PM   #33
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I think most people agree that they both dropped the ball. That being said - 8 years is quite a bit longer than 8 months.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:22 PM   #34
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In all fairness, for most of those 8 years no one know who they were and at first thought it was an isolated attack.
Home grown terrorism was the biggest event during Clinton's years. I remember the picture of the fireman carrying out the baby in Oklahoma like yesterday.
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:47 PM   #35
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I wish he was still President!
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:44 AM   #36
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It's so easy to look back in hindsight.
I don't hold the Clinton or Bush administrations responsible, but instead look at the failure of the bureaucracy that didn't allow the sharing of information between federal law enforcement (FBI) and intelligence (CIA).

The current finger-pointing battle only saddens me.
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
It's so easy to look back in hindsight.
I don't hold the Clinton or Bush administrations responsible, but instead look at the failure of the bureaucracy that didn't allow the sharing of information between federal law enforcement (FBI) and intelligence (CIA).

The current finger-pointing battle only saddens me.
Abso-fucking-lutely.

Well said.
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Old 09-28-2006, 03:48 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
It's so easy to look back in hindsight.
I don't hold the Clinton or Bush administrations responsible, but instead look at the failure of the bureaucracy that didn't allow the sharing of information between federal law enforcement (FBI) and intelligence (CIA).

The current finger-pointing battle only saddens me.
It goes beyond partisan finger pointing, elements within the CIA has actively been leaking to discredit the administration in what looks like a turf war over reform and the State Department is also at odds with the WH; maybe governments can't fight terrorism, maybe they shouldn't be the ones left to do it.
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Old 09-28-2006, 09:17 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It goes beyond partisan finger pointing, elements within the CIA has actively been leaking to discredit the administration in what looks like a turf war over reform and the State Department is also at odds with the WH; maybe governments can't fight terrorism, maybe they shouldn't be the ones left to do it.
Who'd you have in mind instead?
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Old 09-28-2006, 09:20 AM   #40
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I truly admire people who can rise above partisanship, good on you Rudy

Giuliani defends Clinton on anti-terror

By MATT SEDENSKY, Associated Press Writer

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended Bill Clinton on Wednesday over the former president's counterterrorism efforts, saying recent criticism on preventing the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is wrong.

Political bickering over which president — Clinton or George W. Bush — missed more opportunities to prevent the attacks has been escalating since Clinton gave a combative interview on "Fox News Sunday" in which he defended his efforts to kill Osama bin Laden.

"The idea of trying to cast blame on President Clinton is just wrong for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't think he deserves it," Giuliani said in response to a question after an appearance with fellow Republican Charlie Crist, who is running for governor. "I don't think President Bush deserves it. The people who deserve blame for Sept. 11, I think we should remind ourselves, are the terrorists — the Islamic fanatics — who came here and killed us and want to come here again and do it."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice challenged Clinton's claim that he did more than many of his conservative critics to pursue bin Laden, and she accused the Democrat of leaving no comprehensive plan to fight al-Qaida.

Giuliani said he believed Clinton, like his successor, did everything he could with the information he was provided.

"Every American president I've known would have given his life to prevent an attack like that. That includes President Clinton, President Bush," the former mayor said. "They did the best they could with the information they had at the time."
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:39 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
It's so easy to look back in hindsight.
I don't hold the Clinton or Bush administrations responsible, but instead look at the failure of the bureaucracy that didn't allow the sharing of information between federal law enforcement (FBI) and intelligence (CIA).

The current finger-pointing battle only saddens me.

i pretty much agree.

however. the perception of the threat was far graver in 2000/01 than it was in 1995/96.

and remember when Clinton went after OBL with those missiles in the Sudan and he was pounded by the Republicans? this was in the thick of the Lewinsky nonsense (which, in retrospect, seems rather middling and a total waste of a president's time, no?) and they mocked him for it, he was right about that, and especially since Republicans tend to stand up and cheer and sing patriotic songs whenever we toss bombs at someone else.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:02 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It goes beyond partisan finger pointing, elements within the CIA has actively been leaking to discredit the administration in what looks like a turf war over reform and the State Department is also at odds with the WH; maybe governments can't fight terrorism, maybe they shouldn't be the ones left to do it.
I agree. SINCE 9/11, Bush (a.k.a El Diablo) has gone on the offensive taking the war to the terrorists. The Patriot Act, NSA programs, finance tracking, Dept of Homeland Security, Afgan and Iraq wars, detainment and interrogation. Some don't agree with this stategy and as you say, many of these programs have been vigorously opposed politically or compromised by suspicious leaks.

I don't mind the debate on how best to go forward or trying to learn from past mistakes but why revisit the past solely to scapegoat?
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:07 AM   #43
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Originally posted by INDY500


I agree. SINCE 9/11, Bush (a.k.a El Diablo) has gone on the offensive taking the war to the terrorists.


but hasn't this turned out to be a very bad idea?
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:13 AM   #44
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Originally posted by INDY500


I agree. SINCE 9/11, Bush (a.k.a El Diablo) has gone on the offensive taking the war to the terrorists.
I wish he HAD stuck to taking the war to the terrorists instead of wandering off on this Iraq tangent. Let's see. . .Saudi Arabia has been a hotbed of terrorism with it's Wahabi extremism being coddled there? But we couldn't attack them could we? Of the axis of evil, one nation, Iran was actively supporting and propping up a terrorist organization (Hezbollah). Osma bin Laden was some where in Afghanistan not lunching with Saddam Hussein.

So taking the war to the terrorists? I wish.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:51 AM   #45
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Originally posted by Irvine511

but hasn't this turned out to be a very bad idea
Not if your goal is the prevention of terror attacks against Americans. Zero is a pretty good result is it not?

Have there been missteps, setbacks, some questions of constitutionality, and IMO a huge blunder in the execution and timing of the Iraqi invasion, sure. But what's the alternative and can it achieve the same result?
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