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Old 06-06-2004, 07:13 PM   #31
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Originally posted by sue4u2
Not to change the subject, but why do women (and men) hate her so passionately? This woman I work with even went so far as to say "someone should kill her" When I ask her why, she said anyone who would stay with that cheating husband of her's doesn't deserve to live. This makes no sense to me.
i truly dislike her but i think it's disgusting to say she should be killed. my distaste for her actually has nothing to do with melon's post, although i'm sure some would fall into that category. i think hillary is dishonest to her core. i wouldn't trust her as far as i could throw her.

and as for her husband getting the vp nod - it's not going to happen. it's weird that cnn would even post the article.
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Old 06-06-2004, 07:28 PM   #32
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I do not think Hilary could win the Democratic nomination. Not in 2008, and not any other year. She's too controversial and polarizing. She may *think* she can, but I say she can't.
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:19 PM   #33
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Originally posted by melon
Bush and Cheney knew this too, so, as a media footnote with absolutely no fanfare or outrage, Cheney used a loophole to take residency in Wyoming in 2000. Now he was involved with the state in the past, but still...it was clearly a way to get past this problem.

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Politicians moving to different states so they can run for office?
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:21 PM   #34
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who would do such a thing?
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:23 PM   #35
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Politicians moving to different states so they can run for office?
Haha...very true! And that's probably why the media did little to no fanfare.

I'm personally not really up and arms about Cheney using a loophole (and, no, Hillary didn't even come to mind). I just wanted to comment that Bush/Cheney recognized that being from the same state was a problem.

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Old 06-06-2004, 08:29 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Screaming Flower


i truly dislike her but i think it's disgusting to say she should be killed. my distaste for her actually has nothing to do with melon's post, although i'm sure some would fall into that category. i think hillary is dishonest to her core. i wouldn't trust her as far as i could throw her.

and as for her husband getting the vp nod - it's not going to happen. it's weird that cnn would even post the article.
I strongly dislike her because of her 'it takes a village' thing and her attitude that all children should be forced into state run daycare at a young age. I'm not talking just about parents who choose that, there was a time when she was advocating this as the best way, and even made comments that most American parents weren't fit to raise their own kids. It was her "baking cookies" statement about stay at home Moms that really drew my hatred most. I'm a stay at home Mom, I take offense to the idea that only certain people are qualified to raise children. I believe she was advocating a type of youth program like existed in Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany where kids were put in mandatory institionalizied settings very young and educated and raised the 'right' way by people the 'right' side of government approved. Even if they could go home at night, the parents are not supposed to be the main influence in their develpment. So all parents aren't perfect. I'd take them over the government except in very extreme cases of abuse.

I also disagree with her on many other political issues which I won't get into. But her sheer arrogance is abrasive to me. Her problems with her husband have nothing to do with this for me. As a matter of fact, Bill seems like a nicer and friendlier person than her (though I am not a fan of his politics) and I don't blame him for cheating on her. She makes me sick, I can imagine how he must feel in the bedroom. I'd run too.
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:40 PM   #37
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On the other hand, how is reality really that much different than what Clinton was talking about? A lot of people already send their children to day care. A lot of people already send their children to school starting at 3 years old. A lot of mothers, also, *have to* work and they do not have adequate day care, due to its prohibitive cost for many. I think that a day care system, similar to how some European nations handle it, would be very helpful.

I'm not quite sure that Hillary was talking about a "forced" day care. After all, that's our public school system. :P Most mothers don't stay home anymore, and whether that is a good or a bad thing, we have to try and deal with that. I should mention that I was raised by a "stay at home" mother, and, as such, I do think it is a great thing. Yet, not everyone has that luxury, particularly with the way the economy is. The days of a household living with one income is as dead as Lyndon Johnson, sad to say (and that's why I believe that our inflation numbers are skewed to reflect much lower inflation than there really is).

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Old 06-07-2004, 02:37 AM   #38
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Speaking of the democratic nomination, the best opportunity for a break with the past would perhaps have been Howard Dean, who for better or worse had no history in past administrations and no history in Washington.

But he was too scary, right?

Also on past presidents Adams etc, I stand corrected. But Teddy Roosevelt was a pretty distant connection to FDR.

From what I know of both women, I think I admire Eleanor Roosevelt a lot more than Hillary (who I have no particular gripe with). In promoting civil rights in the 1950s she really did put her own safety on the line... years before the civil rights issue was at all prominent.
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Old 06-07-2004, 08:14 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
On the other hand, how is reality really that much different than what Clinton was talking about? A lot of people already send their children to day care. A lot of people already send their children to school starting at 3 years old. A lot of mothers, also, *have to* work and they do not have adequate day care, due to its prohibitive cost for many. I think that a day care system, similar to how some European nations handle it, would be very helpful.
This is a debate I don't want to get into. But the main thing I am getting at is that while of course a lot of people already do, they can choose where the kid will be sent and can take it out or change day cares at their choice any time. It's not 'forced' and most of all it's not government run, mandated or endorsed. That scares me.

A lot of people have kids watched by friends, relatives and home sitters too. I have also seen reports that she wanted to make the home day cares illegal, or that no government aid would be given to people who select this kind of care. Not only is that putting people who use it for an income out of work, what it's saying is that only specially trained, government approved people are fit to watch your kid, and that's scary as hell to me. It all reeks of raising the kids together with an agenda to brainwash them a certain way, as I brought up with Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. If the government wants to pay for child care so bad, they can give the money to the parents and let them spend it as they choose.

In my personal opinion, I don't think the government should pay for child care in families that are not low income. There should definitely be a limit to the amount a family can make and get it paid for. Help the struggling, yes. But don't subsidize it so somebody can work when they don't really "have" to and the only reason they are working is to buy fancier stuff. If they want to do that, it's their business, but let them pay for child care themselves and not add the burden to the taxpayers.

I truly hope Hillary's vision of raising kids in America never comes to pass.

One more thing about her and kids that makes me angry is the time she visited the wife of Polish leader Lec Walensa, who has 8 children. She was quoted as saying how great it was the lady had 8 kids and how she wished she'd had a big family! Bullshit. She hates mothers like Mrs. Walensa, she was only patronizing, and gagging to herself inside. She only had 1 and that must have been a real burden on her.

Speaking of Chelsea Clinton, has anybody seen her new face? She got drastic plastic surgery.

Quote:
a "forced" day care. After all, that's our public school system.
Melon
Yes, it is, and a free babysitter I'm ashamed to say I know parents, even mothers who don't work, who love to get rid of their kids that way and dread vacations. They hope the bus will come as late as possible in the afternoons.
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Old 06-07-2004, 08:42 AM   #40
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This is an old Hillary joke that has been going around for years.

A man was stranded on an island after a shipwreck. He discovers there are no people there, but there are a lot of sheep and sheep dogs. After he's there awhile he gets really horny and tries to do it with the sheep. But every time, he is twarted by the dogs, who attack him. Then one day he sees a woman laying face down on the sand. He turns her over and gives her mouth to mouth and C.P.R. As she comes to, he realizes it's Hillary. She looks into his eyes and says, you saved my life and I will do anything for you. Anything, just ask! He is very horny and decides to take her up on it. "Okay," he says. "Go distract those dogs for awhile!"
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:44 AM   #41
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Originally posted by melon
Hillary Clinton represents a complete detachment from the conservative "dominant hegemony." She is educated, has short hair, works, has an opinion of her own, and is not a trophy for her husband.
Melon
Then why does no one hate Elizabeth Dole? Because she's a nice person. To me, Hillary comes off as arrogant, condescending, haughty, insincere and aloof. I don't like her demeanor. Like somebody else said, I don't trust her any further than I could toss her.

What does hair have to do with anything though?? Laura and Barbara Bush and Nancy Reagan all have short hair and Hillary had long hair with bangs and a headband when Bill first got elected.
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Old 06-07-2004, 01:14 PM   #42
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I can't wait for his book I hope to go to a signing too

Is anyone else going to read it?

When I think about all the Clinton negatives, compared to what we have now, I'd much prefer Bubba
I have it on preorder. I can't wait to read it.
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Old 06-07-2004, 01:48 PM   #43
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People generally are uncomfortable with independent, intelligent, strong women. The very qualities that people bash Hillary for would be respected in a man. Through my work I have met many of the people considered to be this nation's great thinkers, male and female. I have seen little difference in the way the powerful females conduct themselves vs. the way the powerful males conduct themselves, yet the men are revered as great strong leaders and thinkers while the women are generally reduced to bitches. It still amazes me.
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Old 06-08-2004, 12:36 AM   #44
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To anybody that thinks for a second that the key to peace and stability in the world is having more women in positions of power --> Margaret Thatcher

I don't believe that Clinton was one of the great US presidents, I think that there are quite a few things that taint his presidency (not Monica, that was all a bunch of hypocritical BS on every politician who bashed him over it, im talking about Rwanda, failures in fighting terrorism etc.), he was not a bad president but certainly not one of the greats.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:10 AM   #45
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I agree w/ joyfulgirl, I think that double standard is still alive and well

While there are issues outside that standard, I certainly believe Hillary Clinton is subjected to that standard. While she might not be the most honest person/politician, in my opinion she's not the evil incarnate that some people think she is. No other first lady that I can recall has ever been villified to that extent, and it makes you question why..

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