Bible: James 1,22

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hiphop

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Some interesting points have been raised about specific interpretations of the Bible, the "right way" for Christians, etc.

Do you think every Christian has the duty to act according to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, like James says? The following verses come to mind:

Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jam 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

Jam 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(...)

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Jam 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

(...)

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mathew 25:41-46


Seems like Jesus expects us to act accordingly.
 
What for the Christians who believe in what Jesus says, believe in the scriptures, go to church and everything, but do not act like the Bible teaches us in everyday life? Who don´t share their food with the next beggar on the street? Who don´t work for peace and equality every single day, regardless of nation and race?

Practically, those lines say that we have the duty to act. I fear there are very many Christians all around the world who take their religion far too light?

Worse than that, how about politicians? How about our conservative Chancellor Schussel who is a Christian from his own words, but who passes laws which take the money from the poor, the disabled, the minorities, the students and the asylum-seekers and hands it out freely to the rich, to finance economy and new fighter planes?

Can one suppose that those people just lie when they say they are true Christians? Wolves in sheep´s clothes?
 
"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 14:23-24


I believe that those who trully love Christ will obey his teachings. Not in a legalsitic, perfectionist way, but as an expression of their love and appreciation for him.

For those who profess Christ, yet live contrary to his teachings....well only God can know their hearts. It's not really for us to judge.
 
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whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:
What for the Christians who believe in what Jesus says, believe in the scriptures, go to church and everything, but do not act like the Bible teaches us in everyday life? Who don´t share their food with the next beggar on the street? Who don´t work for peace and equality every single day, regardless of nation and race?

Practically, those lines say that we have the duty to act. I fear there are very many Christians all around the world who take their religion far too light?

Worse than that, how about politicians? How about our conservative Chancellor Schussel who is a Christian from his own words, but who passes laws which take the money from the poor, the disabled, the minorities, the students and the asylum-seekers and hands it out freely to the rich, to finance economy and new fighter planes?

Can one suppose that those people just lie when they say they are true Christians? Wolves in sheep´s clothes?

Do you do any of those things? It's easy to critise when you sit on the sidelines. At least many Christians try to do some of those things.
 
starvinmarvin said:


Do you do any of those things? It's easy to critise when you sit on the sidelines. At least many Christians try to do some of those things.

True, many Christians do some of those things, including me. I can give you examples, but probably that would seem selfish, which I don´t want.

I am not critisizing without reason, I am questioning the commitment of those who don´t.

MaxFisher, you´re right, it is not for us to judge. On the other hand, if we can lead those who live contrary to the teachings, or those who don´t move a finger, to live their way more christly by making clear what God expects, it is a good thing, isn´t it?

What is legalistic/ perfectionist in your opinion, and how can one interprete the scripture any different when the expression of love and appreciation lies in getting to act?
 
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whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:
What is legalistic/ perfectionist in your opinion, and how can one interprete the scripture any different when the expression of love and appreciation lies in getting to act?

Many people think they are going to heaven because they go to church, they give money to the poor, they are generally a good person, they obey the law, oppose abortion, etc. Christ makes it very clear that we cannot earn our way into heaven. So if someone is depending on their actions to get into heaven, well that is wrong thinking.

My point is that for a Christian, spiritual fruit like love, helping the poor, good works, etc. should be born out of a revolution of the heart by God. Good works are the natural outpouring of a Christian.

Spiritual fruit is the product of being a Christian.
Being a Christian is not the product of doing good works.
 
MaxFisher said:
Many people think they are going to heaven because they go to church, they give money to the poor, they are generally a good person, they obey the law, oppose abortion, etc. Christ makes it very clear that we cannot earn our way into heaven. So if someone is depending on their actions to get into heaven, well that is wrong thinking.

So if someone's actions won't affect whether they go to heaven, then what's to stop a person living an utterly immoral life because they know all they have to do is ask forgiveness and they'll go to heaven?
 
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. " (AL I:40)
"Love is the law, love under will. "(AL I:57)
"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. " (AL III:60)


- quotations from the works of Alesteir Crowley, British occultist.
:shifty:
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
So if someone's actions won't affect whether they go to heaven, then what's to stop a person living an utterly immoral life because they know all they have to do is ask forgiveness and they'll go to heaven?

:up:.

Not to mention, aren't there also parts in the Bible that say actions do matter in getting to heaven? It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it, no real "right" or "wrong" answer?

Angela
 
MaxFisher said:
For those who profess Christ, yet live contrary to his teachings....well only God can know their hearts. It's not really for us to judge.



How wonderfully.....convenient.
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Not to mention, aren't there also parts in the Bible that say actions do matter in getting to heaven? It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it, no real "right" or "wrong" answer?

:up: I think perhaps that was the point hiphop made with his first post in this thread. Not really knowing much about Christianity I'm probably not qualified to comment on this, but to me at least the verses hiphop quoted would contradict the "all you have to do is believe in god and you'll go to heaven" line.
 
MaxFisher said:
Would you prefer that evangelicals go around judging other people?

In my country, some of those who style themselves evangelicals already do go around judging other people.
 
MaxFisher said:
okay, would you prefer that I as a Christian judge people or should I leave it to God?

This is exactly the thin line I am referring to. We don´t have the right to judge, only God has, however convenient or not convenient that is. But at the same time we can, and maybe we have to, remind ourelves and our fellow Christian brothers of aforementioned. So more of us come to act in God´s will.

Reminding someone who calls himself a Christian of certain passages in the Bible is not to judge, in my opinion. It is rather like spreading the word.
 
You're absolutely right Hip Hop.

I was offended by finance guy's comment of "how convenient".

Christians constantly get flammed in this forum for, "sitting in judgement of others". Yet when I say God should judge, my view is belittled. It's a catch 22.
 
MaxFisher said:
You're absolutely right Hip Hop.

I was offended by finance guy's comment of "how convenient".

Christians constantly get flammed in this forum for, "sitting in judgement of others". Yet when I say God should judge, my view is belittled. It's a catch 22.


why should anyone judge? why not live and let live, so long as the rights of others are preserved? why must judgement be inferred in all actions, whether by man or God?
 
All I can add to this discussion is:

many are called, few are chosen.

Many who pride (false pride) themselves on being excellent Christians will one day find out what God thinks of them.

My favorite quote from the Bible is "those who exalt themselves on earth, shall be humbled in heaven as those who humble themselves on earth shall be exalted in heaven".

We all could learn from those words. :up:
 
MadelynIris said:
can anyone point out an example of a christian judging someone in FYM?

Actually I left FYM for a period of time when just such an individual told me I didn't believe in God.

Apparently he felt qualified enough to judge.
 
anitram said:


Actually I left FYM for a period of time when just such an individual told me I didn't believe in God.

Apparently he felt qualified enough to judge.

:hug:

I got examples too but do not want to quote them here, I guess I can be harsh too. The one who I am talking about knows very well, let´s leave it at that.
 
anitram said:


Actually I left FYM for a period of time when just such an individual told me I didn't believe in God.

Apparently he felt qualified enough to judge.

I was fit to be tied that night! Dang it all...my blood pressure is boiling just thinking about that poster....:mad:
 
Back to the topic at hand. The Bible says:

1Cr 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

1Cr 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper.

1Cr 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.


"It is impossible to implement love in a society that is divided into classes. A class society is the negation of Christian love.

To celebrate an authentic Eucharist, we need a classless society. We can not appear at the same table to celebrate the Eucharist, if we are seperated in classes, in rich and poor. "

Ernesto Cardenal, 1973
 
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:
I fear there are very many Christians all around the world who take their religion far too light?

We all will stand before a Holy God and give account for our actions. This is the crux of your thoughts. The world does not promote the serious living of faith. It matters to God. It should matter to us.
 
nbcrusader said:


We all will stand before a Holy God and give account for our actions. This is the crux of your thoughts. The world does not promote the serious living of faith. It matters to God. It should matter to us.

True that, thanks for your reply. The world doesn´t promote it, but following the Bible, we Christians (and I don´t exclude any other religion, for that matter) have the duty to promote it.
 
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