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Old 06-06-2006, 04:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


A select historical example is really not the basis for a pattern of "slaughter".


a select historical example?

as if catholic/protestant tensions haven't shaped the course of european history and still result in death today!
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
a select historical example?

as if catholic/protestant tensions haven't shaped the course of european history and still result in death today!
Ok, we've gone from "slaughter" to results in death.

The sectarian violence that has existed for centuries is very complex, yet has little or nothing to do with the underlying question here.

Do you have a definition?
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:09 PM   #33
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So is this the answer from the left? Mime the misguided hysteria from the right? Isn't anyone going to be resonable?

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:03 AM   #34
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Christians accept Jesus as their Savior. That's the most basic definition.

The past two millenia of killing all have more to do with whether a person hews to the teaching a particular church than it does with whether you are actually a Christian or not.
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:14 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Ok, we've gone from "slaughter" to results in death.

The sectarian violence that has existed for centuries is very complex, yet has little or nothing to do with the underlying question here.


shall we not call protestant/catholic bloodshed in Europe a slaughter? does a slaughter not result in death?

semantics conveniently avoid the point here as you tacitly try to absolve religion from the violence it inspires in people.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:13 AM   #36
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Dramatic depictions of violence for the sake of this thread is unnecessary.

You completely miss the point of sectarian violence - it has nothing to do with the question we are discussing in this thread.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Dramatic depictions of violence for the sake of this thread is unnecessary.



and where are those to be found?

i've said nothing about, say, the Inquisition.


Quote:
You completely miss the point of sectarian violence - it has nothing to do with the question we are discussing in this thread.

and what is the point of sectarian violence?

the question being discussed in this thread is tangental to this discussion, but you were the one who contested my statement that debates over the definition of what a Christian is has lead to a history of violence.

and we're not even talking about Christianity vs. The World, this is just inter-Christian violence.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

the question being discussed in this thread is tangental to this discussion, but you were the one who contested my statement that debates over the definition of what a Christian is has lead to a history of violence.
I questioned the dramatic depiction of "slaughter" as a result of answering a theological question. If anything, the attempt to answer the question has led to the splintering of a church, not all-out violence. Desire for political control leads to violence.

Do you have a definition for "Christian"?
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I questioned the dramatic depiction of "slaughter" as a result of answering a theological question. If anything, the attempt to answer the question has led to the splintering of a church, not all-out violence. Desire for political control leads to violence.



if anything? what do we call the crusades, the inquisition, the reformation, witch hunts, anti-semitism, etc.? can we call this anything but a slaughter?

if you prefer "mass death" or "wars" or "killing" or whatever, please fill in whichever adjective you feel is more appropriate. i'm not interested in semantics or your pushing the definition of a single word as inappropriate in order to distract from the central issue: the debate over what it means to be a Christian has resulted in mass death.

Quote:
Do you have a definition for "Christian"?

no. it seems to be largely a defintion of convenience, prompting little more than veiled holier-than-thou assertions.

thus, i think it's a definition that's most useful as a self-definition or expression of self-identity. i don't think it has much usefulness as a universal definition.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:51 PM   #40
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I think this has more to do with your view of Christianity than the ability to come up with a definition of "Christian".

Lies did quite a few posts ago.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I think this has more to do with your view of Christianity than the ability to come up with a definition of "Christian".

Lies did quite a few posts ago.


i really recommend that you read Under the Banner of Heaven.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140...Fencoding=UTF8
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:16 PM   #42
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I don't intend this to be self-righteous or anything, but how can there NOT be a definition of a Christian? I mean, come on, you either ARE or you ARE NOT. Of course, peoples' definitions can and will vary (not that I'd encourage that), but that doesn't mean Christianity is not define-able. A CHRISTian follows CHRIST. Seems pretty black and white to me. Again, the extent to which it's actually done, or people's personal interpretations of what is or is not following Christ will differ, but the definition of being a Christian cannot.

God help me (literally) if my life revolves around something I can't even define...

And what this even has to do with the original topic I can't figure out. Can we drop it since obviously we're never going to define Christianity, or probably a lot of things in life, exactly the same way?
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
God help me (literally) if my life revolves around something I can't even define...


i'm only arguing that it is a self-created definition -- it assists in self-expression and self-identity, and discussions about what it "means" to be a Christian or what a Christian "is" are only useful on an individual level.

and i think, if we thought about it, we would all not only agree, but see this a good thing.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:20 PM   #44
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double post.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i'm only arguing that it is a self-created definition -- it assists in self-expression and self-identity, and discussions about what it "means" to be a Christian or what a Christian "is" are only useful on an individual level.

and i think, if we thought about it, we would all not only agree, but see this a good thing.
I think we're still on different pages. I'll try and say it better since my other post kinda confused myself: I don't think there is any room for debate over what and what is not a Christian. A Christian follows Christ, period. It's build right into the word. The wiggle-room comes from different interpretations of what it means to follow Christ, not what it means to be a Christian; they're defining specific doctrines and denominations under the umbrella of Christianity, following Christ.
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