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Old 12-09-2002, 09:56 AM   #16
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Originally posted by DebbieSG





---because of one mistake in the past?

What Clinton is doing now is important, and for the sake of the people who are dying and humanity in general, deserve to be listened to. .
one mistake?:

Again the article had merit.
It would have more merit written by someone w better character.

No matter what Republicans do I dont ever think it will be enough for some.
We will always be labeled as selfish bastards because our methods of addressing problems are not the same as Democrats, long story short..

DB9
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Old 12-09-2002, 10:55 AM   #17
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Originally posted by diamond
Again the article had merit.
It would have more merit written by someone w better character.
My God, you have beat this with a dead horse, to be quite honest, and, quite honestly, no one really has given a shit about Clinton's "character" except the tabloid media (and, unfortunately, this includes our tabloid-like television media) and Republicans.

A side anecdote: One of the UN weapons inspectors in Iraq is also a leader in the sadomasochism/leader/fetish arena. So what happens? The inspector offers to resign when the Post makes a big deal about it, but Hans Blix refuses, stating that he is a highly qualified weapons inspector, and that whatever he does in his private life has no bearing on the job at hand. America needs to get their head out of the sand, and wake up to the fact that life isn't rosy and perfect like some idyllic 1950s sitcom. Face it! It's fiction! Where were these issues of "character" when Newt Gingrich cheated on his wives?

It's a complete partisan ploy on Clinton--it always has been--and, for God's sake, get over it! If all Bush did was cheat on his wife with an intern, and was otherwise a good president, I would say the same thing. It is about time that we start criticizing on the issues that matter the most--and, for the president, that is on his policies, not who he chooses to have sex with.

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Old 12-09-2002, 12:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
no one really has given a shit about Clinton's "character"
And you wonder why politicians are influenced by campaign contributions. Excellence in leadership starts on a personal level.

This applies to all leadership. From President to cub scout troop leader. Unfortunately, this turns into a "your leader has flaws, so my leader's flaws don't matter".
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Old 12-09-2002, 01:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


, this includes our tabloid-like television media) and Republicans.

A side anecdote: One of the UN weapons inspectors in Iraq is also a leader in the sadomasochism/leader/fetish arena. So what happens? The inspector offers to resign when the Post makes a big deal about it, but Hans Blix refuses, stating that he is a highly qualified weapons inspector, and that whatever he does in his private life has no bearing on the job at hand. America needs to get their head out of the sand, and wake up to the fact that life isn't rosy and perfect like some idyllic 1950s sitcom. Face it! It's fiction!

Where were these issues of "character" when Newt Gingrich cheated on his wives?


If all Bush did was cheat on his wife with an intern, and was otherwise a good president, I would say the same thing.

Melon
I forgot Melon, you see us Republicans as inferior to you..our morality inferior to yours..
With it being close to Christmas, can u pul-leeez forgive us?
Please?

That inspector would never make a good US President..

If Newt wrote an AIDS article my reaction would be the same.
I think Newt knows better..Bill doesnt.

Bush would resign first if he was caught harrassing subordinates and getting hummers in the Oval Office, sparing our country the embarrassment. Its a character issue.

Lastly we Republicans are ppl too, learn to live w us..

thank u
Peace
Out-

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Old 12-09-2002, 01:54 PM   #20
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I do understand, Diamond, but I do not agree.

In your response to Melon, you mentioned how he should perk up on his 'forgiveness' for the Christmas spirit, though it seems you haven't forgiven, or forgotten.

Its been said before more eloquently, but what a person does behind closed doors is their own affair. We have no mirror into a person's soul or character, and we have no right to judge either. Time and time again, Diamond, you have used Winston Churchill as an example of fine leadership, did the fact that he was a shameless and fanatically sexist alcoholic deprive him of the quality of leadership? It did not. Cheating on your wife is cheating on your wife, and being an alcoholic is being an alcoholic - neither grant credibility to a country's leader. But that is not within, I believe, our jurisdiction to judge.

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Old 12-09-2002, 02:00 PM   #21
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Forgive yes.

Forget no...that wold make us foolish, if the perpertrator doesnt curtail his addictions..

case in point-

Gennifer Flowers
Paula Jones
Kathleen Wiley
Monica..

nameless others..

Winston wouldnt perjured himself..nor write an article on the virtues of...fidelity towards your spouse, now would he?

Out-

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Old 12-09-2002, 02:06 PM   #22
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"Winston wouldnt perjured himself.."

I guess we'll never know. But it still does not answer my question, does his alcoholism deprive him of his credibility?

I suppose your next point will be that its one thing to make a mistake, another to lie about it, however - would it have made any difference in the eyes of the general public, or yours for that matter? I think not, the fact that he lied (allegedly, the entire ordeal, I think, was a tad bit shady, and I fail to see how anyone could jeopardise their own presidency over such an unattractive woman) about his mistake was mere gravy.

No, Winston Churchill did not lie about his alcoholism, but then again it was never brought up, the British public never made a big deal about it, and I fail to see why the media made such a big deal out of Clinton.

And although he never wrote articles about HIV while being unfaithful to his wife, he did write authoratitive articles about Workers and their rights, as represented by their Unions. This was a tad incredible, as Churchill was extemely hostile towards workers, particularly miners, and their rights. He was politically hostile against the suffragettes, and yet wrote in his later life how he thought women should in fact get the vote. He was a raving alcoholic, and yet wrote about the 'pillars of virtue'. Oh, he was a fine pillar of strength during the war, but the Prime Minister was a complete horror when it came to domestic policy. Still, politics is another question entirely - he still contradicted himself and his values.

Does it deny him of credibility?


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Old 12-09-2002, 02:19 PM   #23
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Ant-
Lets end this silly little dance..
Please

Did GW deny his alcolholic addiction, when it was brought up by th media 3 days before the general election?
A.)-No.

let me some it up this way-
Bill C. has about as much credibility lecturing on a STD- such as(AIDS)..
as..
GW would have on being a "proficient speech therapist"..

Hope this makes sense..

This dance is officially now over..

thank u-

Diamond
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Old 12-09-2002, 02:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
And you wonder why politicians are influenced by campaign contributions. Excellence in leadership starts on a personal level.
And the "personal level" is all the Republican Party appears to care about. Sure, your politicians may make the appearance of being perfect Protestant heterosexuals with their trophy wife and 2.5 children, but when it comes down to some of the crap they pull in office, where is the outrage? That's right...it doesn't exist! Campaign contributions should be something of outrage, but where is the press coverage? That's right...it doesn't exist!

There is seriously something wrong with this country if we cannot tell the difference between a consensual extramarital affair and getting bribed by special interests! Let me give you a hint: the latter is illegal, while the former is not.

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Old 12-09-2002, 02:35 PM   #25
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Originally posted by diamond
This dance is officially now over..
Thank you, Reverend Diamond.

Republicans are just better liars than Democrats.

Melon
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Old 12-09-2002, 02:40 PM   #26
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i choose only to dance w myself..
and
er..
eh,
Mr Bono if so requested

thank u-

DB9
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Old 12-09-2002, 03:05 PM   #27
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"let me some it up this way-
Bill C. has about as much credibility lecturing on a STD- such as(AIDS)..
as..
GW would have on being a "proficient speech therapist"."

Well, no, I still don't buy it. Its not as if Bill Clinton was ever found to actually get a STD. Who knows? He may have used protection during his wretched activities. Fidelity, and the virtues derived of such are entirely different things. And of course, my question concerning Churchill goes unanswered.

I've been wanting to end this silly dance since it began, but I was so inspired by your enthusiasm, I asked myself 'why not?'.

Ant.
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Old 12-09-2002, 03:11 PM   #28
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Originally posted by diamond




Bush would resign first if he was caught harrassing subordinates and getting hummers in the Oval Office, sparing our country the embarrassment. Its a character issue.

Well i can see melon is doing a great job putting you in your place but i thought thisd quote was funny. You obviuosly never got a hummer. You cant really drive a vehicle around the oval office. Only maybe if you had one of those little kiddie jeeps, but i think Monica is a bit to heavy.\

Peace...
Dance...
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Old 12-09-2002, 06:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Hope u understand the point.
Great article.
Wrong author.
That's just absurd.

Had a different author written it, it would have been a different (and possibly not great) article.

Do you think a starving HIV+ orphan in Africa gives two shits about Monica Lewinsky? Hell no. But he does care about, oh, I don't know, people like Clinton writing letters supporting his desire to live another day.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:39 PM   #30
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Be quiet all of you..
The world already knoooows I won this dance on style points alone..

thank u-
DB9
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