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Old 05-16-2002, 12:23 PM   #1
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Belief system

OK,

I've been reading alot about everyone's belief system and I just have to wonder this,

I used to believe in God. I used to believe that the good in all of us would prevail over the bad. I used to believe the addage, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I refuse to get into arguments over what I should and shouldn't believe, what is right and isn't right.

But if there is a God, a higher being, why does he not protect us from evil. Answer me that. I grew up in a strict Roman Catholic French Canadian famiily with very rigid values. I believed in the body of Christ back then.

But I don't understand how he forsakes some who believe..for that reason, by belief system has changed and my spirituality has evolved. And I also know that most of you believe that you can't be spriritual without believing in the almighty father but I beg to differ.

Just wanted to share my thoughts. Tolerance goes both ways in my eyes. I don't fault anyone for what they believe and I ask that you don't fault me for what I believe. I believe I was let down.
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Old 05-16-2002, 12:41 PM   #2
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I think the simple answer is “free will”. If God had not created human beings with the freedom to choose whether or not they wanted to serve good or evil, then we would be automatons rather than humans. Unfortunately, the downside of that is that we DO have the ability to choose wrong and our actions can and often do affect others. Humans can rape, kill, pillage and torture other humans. They have the choice to do that. Does that mean God is responsible? I don’t know. I don’t think so.

I’ve asked myself a lot of these same questions and I haven’t yet figured out the answers that work for me. One book that I have looked through that was helpful on a practical level is called “Letters from a Skeptic” by Greg Boyd. I’d recommend you read it if you get a chance. It’s a collection of letters back and forth between a pastor (Boyd) and his agnostic father and they discuss a lot of the things that you seem to be addressing.
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Old 05-16-2002, 01:44 PM   #3
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WhackaMole, I remember reading your story in Zoo Confessionals, and if I didn't say this already, I feel terrible for what you had to go through. I can certainly understand how that experience might challenge someone's faith.

You can be spiritual without believing in, as you say, the "Almighty Father." I'm uncomfortable with that term because I believe that God has male and female aspects. But I do largely believe in the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and in the fully human and fully divine Jesus.

I suppose I have a few questions for anyone who doesn't believe or who stopped believing, but I guess I have two: First, what do you think humans would do with a "perfect" world? What would be the point? What would there be to improve or work for? If the world were perfect, why bother with the whole pesky stage of existence and merely live as heavenly noumena without physical form?

The second one: Although you say that God didn't protect you from evil, who, exactly, does God protect from evil? God did not even spare Jesus from the most gruesome, horrible death they could come up with. No one has a perfect answer to the question of evil, but the fact is that evil exists and we can't fully get rid of it. Sula is probably right when she says that a lot of it stems from free will. Although you might wonder why God did not protect you, WhackaMole, God does not spare anyone from suffering in this life. And in my suffering, my faith is sometimes the only thing that has gotten me through.

Look at it this way: even though something terrible happened to you, you are still alive with many years in front of you. Since you have Internet access, it's also pretty likely that you have a home to live in and some food to eat. You have friends--if nowhere else, then here. I admire you for surviving thus far. I don't know if I answered your questions at all--I have a feeling that melon and 80sU2isBest are going to come up to bat in a little while--but I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers, and I hope you reconsider your faith. It has a lot to offer you.


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But a day will come
In this dawning age
When an honest man
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--The Edge
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Old 05-16-2002, 02:02 PM   #4
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Ok bear with me, here are some thoughts I have on your comments,

As for the world we live in – I believe this. Everyone should be able to live together regardless of race, colour, or creed. In a perfect world there would be tolerance, understanding, love, and common values. The world we live in is very far from that. If the world were perfect everyone would embrace their own faith and rejoice in its meaning. If the world were perfect everyones tolerance would lead to acceptance of others. In a perfect world there would be no hate.

Will we be held under the watchful eye of our faith – certainly not. Will we be held accountable by our actions under the watchful eye of our faith – I don’t think so. Will we be loved under the watchful eye of our faith – that I’m not sure of.

As for the suffering of mankind – for those who have belief and those who don’t, I find it very disheartening to know that someone can hurt and damage(who in my eyes can’t have much belief) can still smile and coexist with others around them. They are able to look me in the eye and carry on. And for others, the look in the eye will never come again and existence turns lonely. Where is the faith in that.

Just my thoughts…probably don’t make much sense in the grand scheme of things to be…
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Old 05-17-2002, 11:50 PM   #5
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Do you have to be a Christian? Many other religions have a clearer grasp of the concept of karma and sanskaras, truly reaping what you've sown. When someone does something awful and against what spritual teachings of all kinds say is wrong, that person willpay for it; maybe not in this lifetime, but penance will be paid. Many people who feel that God has deserted them may be looking in the wrong place; they're looking for Jesus to help them. He does and He will, but probably not in the way they want or expect, so they leave Him.

When my head cold is better, and it's not so late, and my final is written, I wll be more lucid and helpful.

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Old 05-18-2002, 12:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha:
Do you have to be a Christian? Many other religions have a clearer grasp of the concept of karma and sanskaras, truly reaping what you've sown. When someone does something awful and against what spritual teachings of all kinds say is wrong, that person willpay for it; maybe not in this lifetime, but penance will be paid. Many people who feel that God has deserted them may be looking in the wrong place; they're looking for Jesus to help them. He does and He will, but probably not in the way they want or expect, so they leave Him.

When my head cold is better, and it's not so late, and my final is written, I wll be more lucid and helpful.


The world didn't make sense to me through the teachings of my Christian upbringing. But when I began studying about karma, reincarnation, engrams and sanskaras, everything started falling into place.
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