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Old 10-03-2005, 09:49 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

In the age of AIDS, condoms are pro-life.


terrific, concise statement.

am going to remember that one.
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:31 AM   #47
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I'm with Sherry. I'm also a person of faith who is a social scientist. Faith doesn't necessarily make you think one way or the other.
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Old 10-03-2005, 01:38 PM   #48
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Irvine, wow, thanks! You too, Verte!
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:07 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
The above statement is too dogmatic and simplistic, in my opinion. I'm a person of faith and the above it not at all true of me, as a social scientist. You'd do better to phrase it like "dogmatic faith" or "literalist faith" (ie, the world was created in 7 days"). Are you able to explain WHY giving God responsibility means investigation will stop? Faith is about the "why", not the "how". They are both important questions.
I meant dogmatic faith, I swear!

I was certainly not implying that a person of faith cannot be an effective or unbiased scientist, just that the cross-contamination common to the literalists is poison to true science. I know many people of faith who are excellent scientists, both social and physical.

As to why giving god responsibility causes investigation to cease...

That was a combination of personal and historical observation. Personally, I was always infuriated when my primary school teachers would cite "god" as an answer to my questions.

As far as history goes, you don't have to look as far back as Galileo to see organizations of faith interfering in scientific pursuits. Modern-day restrictions on stem-cell research, cloning, the origin of homosexuality, gay marriage, and the like are off-limits because (fundamentally) there is a belief amongst those in charge of the country that life is God's domain, and humans shouldn't be mucking around with the divine.
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:09 PM   #50
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Religion: the number one cause of wars.
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:09 PM   #51
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Religion?

Or mankind's warping of religion for its own gain?
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:50 PM   #52
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Mong: appreciate the clarification. And I agree that religious organizations in history have at times opposed science, indeed. Galilieo is the classic example.

Iskra: If you look at the 18th-20th centuries, I think it's more accurate to say that nationalism has been the #1 cause of wars.
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
Religion?

Or mankind's warping of religion for its own gain?


or is religion the humankind's warping of spirituality for its own gain?
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Old 10-04-2005, 04:20 PM   #54
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A good question, since Jesus wasn't political and seemed to be advocating a relational system that would always be counter-cultural.
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Old 10-04-2005, 04:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
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A good question, since Jesus wasn't political and seemed to be advocating a relational system that would always be counter-cultural.


makes sense to me.

however -- why always counter-cultural? does it follow, then, that the establishment of religion-as-culture is, by definition, a human perversion of the real thing?
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Old 10-04-2005, 07:53 PM   #56
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"belief in God harms quality of life on earth"


Yes, the atheists built all the hospitals.

~they founded the Red Cross and other relief
agencies

~The atheists wrote all the great literature

~The atheists fought and died to end slavery

~The atheists discovered all the breakthroughs in science and medicine

~The atheists painted all the great works of art and all the great music through the ages.


Yep, those God believing folk ruined life everywhere they lived.



And please don't flame me with acts of people who claimed to be Christian with the ones who really were Christian.

That rebel from Nazareth warned us of false prophets and those who claim to come in his name.,
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:03 PM   #57
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thanks very much for this thread.

I really loved the article and the ideas it was trying to espouse.

I don't know how much of it went over people's heads, though.

thanks for trying to open our minds as well as the discussion.
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:16 PM   #58
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God is an atheist.

Think about that one for awhile.

You will realize that I am right.
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
"belief in God harms quality of life on earth"


Yes, the atheists built all the hospitals.

~they founded the Red Cross and other relief
agencies

~The atheists wrote all the great literature

~The atheists fought and died to end slavery

~The atheists discovered all the breakthroughs in science and medicine

~The atheists painted all the great works of art and all the great music through the ages.


Yep, those God believing folk ruined life everywhere they lived.



And please don't flame me with acts of people who claimed to be Christian with the ones who really were Christian.

That rebel from Nazareth warned us of false prophets and those who claim to come in his name.,
Max, I don't usually respond to obviously provacative, trollish posts like this, but some of your facts were so wrong I feel I must.

The Red Cross was founded by Clara Barton who was Universalist, not atheist.

http://www.nps.gov/clba/chron3.html

Although aligned with the Universalist Church, Clara Barton becomes a defender of Mary Baker Eddy and the Christian Science faith. Like many people of the Victorian era, Miss Barton also has interests in faith healing, astrology, and spiritualism.

Major anti-slavery crusaders included Harriet Beecher Stowe, a Calvanist, and the abolitionist movement came at least in major part from the Quakers and other Christians (America's 19th Century Billy Graham, Jonathan Edwards, even preeched against it).

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/african/afam005.html

Regarding literature, Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Tolkein, Chaucer, William Blake, Maya Angelou, Charlotte Bronte and Dante would all probably take issue with that statement.

Great wallpapers in PLEBA thought.
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling


Max, I don't usually respond to obviously provacative, trollish posts like this, but some of your facts were so wrong I feel I must.

The Red Cross was founded by Clara Barton who was Universalist, not atheist.

http://www.nps.gov/clba/chron3.html

Although aligned with the Universalist Church, Clara Barton becomes a defender of Mary Baker Eddy and the Christian Science faith. Like many people of the Victorian era, Miss Barton also has interests in faith healing, astrology, and spiritualism.

Major anti-slavery crusaders included Harriet Beecher Stowe, a Calvanist, and the abolitionist movement came at least in major part from the Quakers and other Christians (America's 19th Century Billy Graham, Jonathan Edwards, even preeched against it).

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/african/afam005.html

Regarding other social advanced, Dorothy Day just about single-handedly began the US prison reform movement, and founded the Catholic Worker's Movement. You are obviously overlook the role of the church in the civil rights movement, also (MLK was a Southern Baptist). Desmond Tutu, in South Africa, was a major force against Apartheid.

Regarding literature, Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Tolkein, Chaucer, William Blake, Maya Angelou, Charlotte Bronte and Dante would all probably take issue with that statement.

Great wallpapers in PLEBA thought.
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