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Old 11-06-2005, 12:56 PM   #1
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Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Back in the day, almost all actors and entertainers in America were patriotic.

Jimmy Stewart was a colonel in the Army Air corps. He was a certified bomber pilot in World War II. He earned two medals: The Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Metal, for flying many missions against the Germans.

Clark Gable, who starred in Gone With The Wind, sent FDR a telegram requesting permission to join the US Army. He was in his forties at the time. Roosevelt reportedly said, "Stay where you are." It didn't end there. Clark Gable worked his way up the ladder. First a lieutenant, then a captain, then a major. He flew air raids with the 351st Bomb Group at Polebrook, England, and also in a B-17 bomber with the 91st Bomb Group. The Nazis even put a reward for his head as a result of his bombing campaigns. This is about the last thing you might expect Sean Penn to do.

Case in point, Ronald Reagan became a captain for the US Air Corps. Henry Fonda received a Bronze Star for Valor when he served in the Navy. Charles Durning earned three Purple Hearts and the Silver star. While serving in the Army, James Arness was awarded the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star. If you think these are the few exceptions, you're wrong. Alan Ladd, Jack Palance, George Montgomery, Glenn Ford, Van Heflin, Jackie Coogan, Don Adams, Lee Marvin, and Arthur Kennedy - all actors, all soldiers, all patriots for the free world.

They turned over their celebrity status to fight alongside of America's working class, risking their lives. These days, there's a better chance of your Hollywood lads to march alongside of Human Shield, who went to Iraq to disrupt our military operations.

Were our Hollywood Heroes better off than our troops are in Iraq right now? Probably not. The reported American death toll in World War II is 292,131, according to the United States Civil War Center.

Today's Hollywood types are screaming about some 2,000 US casualties and the billions of dollars invested in the war effort. Maybe they don't realize that we spent what would add up to over $2 trillion in today's cost adjustment on World War II.

Hmm...
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Old 11-06-2005, 02:53 PM   #2
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Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Back in the day, almost all actors and entertainers in America were patriotic.
You know, I'm not patriotic in the slightest but the implication that to oppose the war means one is not patriotic bothers me, if only because it seems that being branded 'unpatriotic' is problematic for many opponents of the war. Please tell me what is unpatriotic about questioning or indeed opposing a policy of your government.

Quote:
Today's Hollywood types are screaming about some 2,000 US casualties and the billions of dollars invested in the war effort. Maybe they don't realize that we spent what would add up to over $2 trillion in today's cost adjustment on World War II.
The author of the article (I don't know if it's your own article or not? Could you clarify?) seems to assume some sort of equivalence between World War II and the current war in Iraq, when even a cursory glance at a textbook of twentieth century history will expose the vast differences between the conflict of 1939-1945 and the contemporary situation in Iraq.

And just for the record, people's concern with the war in Iraq isn't exclusively with American military deaths or the cost to the United States. Many people are disgusted to see that thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed and millions more had their lives devastated by the invasion. It is that reason, as much or more than the cost to the United States, which leads many to oppose this war.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:11 PM   #3
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Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


You know, I'm not patriotic in the slightest but the implication that to oppose the war means one is not patriotic bothers me, if only because it seems that being branded 'unpatriotic' is problematic for many opponents of the war. Please tell me what is unpatriotic about questioning or indeed opposing a policy of your government.



The author of the article (I don't know if it's your own article or not? Could you clarify?) seems to assume some sort of equivalence between World War II and the current war in Iraq, when even a cursory glance at a textbook of twentieth century history will expose the vast differences between the conflict of 1939-1945 and the contemporary situation in Iraq.

And just for the record, people's concern with the war in Iraq isn't exclusively with American military deaths or the cost to the United States. Many people are disgusted to see that thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed and millions more had their lives devastated by the invasion. It is that reason, as much or more than the cost to the United States, which leads many to oppose this war.
Yet many people who opposed the invasion never marched or had rally's to protest Saddam's invasion of Iran, Invasion of Kuwait, and attacks on Israel and Saudi Arabia. Where was the concern for the millions of lives impacted in various ways(Iraqi's as well as people around the world) by Saddam's actions and if one was truely concerned about what Saddam had done in the past as well as what he could potentially do in the future, why would one oppose removing the regime, in the only way it could be done given Saddam's capabilities?
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:15 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

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Originally posted by STING2
Yet many people who opposed the invasion never marched or had rally's to protest Saddam's invasion of Iran, Invasion of Kuwait, and attacks on Israel and Saudi Arabia. Where was the concern for the millions of lives impacted in various ways(Iraqi's as well as people around the world) by Saddam's actions and if one was truely concerned about what Saddam had done in the past as well as what he could potentially do in the future, why would one oppose removing the regime, in the only way it could be done given Saddam's capabilities?
What does any of that have to do with the points I raised? I asked why a person should be considered unpatriotic for opposing the war and questioned the idea that there are paralells between WWII and the invasion of Iraq. (I also asked macfistowannabe if he is the author of the article posted or not, but I wouldn't expect you to be able to answer that of course.)
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:16 PM   #5
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Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Back in the day, almost all actors and entertainers in America were patriotic.

Jimmy Stewart was a colonel in the Army Air corps. He was a certified bomber pilot in World War II. He earned two medals: The Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Metal, for flying many missions against the Germans.

Clark Gable, who starred in Gone With The Wind, sent FDR a telegram requesting permission to join the US Army. He was in his forties at the time. Roosevelt reportedly said, "Stay where you are." It didn't end there. Clark Gable worked his way up the ladder. First a lieutenant, then a captain, then a major. He flew air raids with the 351st Bomb Group at Polebrook, England, and also in a B-17 bomber with the 91st Bomb Group. The Nazis even put a reward for his head as a result of his bombing campaigns. This is about the last thing you might expect Sean Penn to do.

Case in point, Ronald Reagan became a captain for the US Air Corps. Henry Fonda received a Bronze Star for Valor when he served in the Navy. Charles Durning earned three Purple Hearts and the Silver star. While serving in the Army, James Arness was awarded the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star. If you think these are the few exceptions, you're wrong. Alan Ladd, Jack Palance, George Montgomery, Glenn Ford, Van Heflin, Jackie Coogan, Don Adams, Lee Marvin, and Arthur Kennedy - all actors, all soldiers, all patriots for the free world.

They turned over their celebrity status to fight alongside of America's working class, risking their lives. These days, there's a better chance of your Hollywood lads to march alongside of Human Shield, who went to Iraq to disrupt our military operations.

Were our Hollywood Heroes better off than our troops are in Iraq right now? Probably not. The reported American death toll in World War II is 292,131, according to the United States Civil War Center.

Today's Hollywood types are screaming about some 2,000 US casualties and the billions of dollars invested in the war effort. Maybe they don't realize that we spent what would add up to over $2 trillion in today's cost adjustment on World War II.

Hmm...

Mac,


It was the lefties, the intreventionalists that were iching to jump into WWII


and the "Conservatives" America-First types that were fighting to keep us out.

WWII and the War of Choice based on fraudulant evidence are indeed two different things.

Unless you are just someone who loves war and killing people.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:18 PM   #6
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I do not know where our Hollywood Heros are...

But an NFL hero comes to mind....Although maybe not a hero in FYM.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:20 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

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Originally posted by STING2


Yet many people who opposed the invasion never marched or had rally's to protest
you are so very wrong


it was the lefties that were out front in early 2001 protesting the Talaban in Afghanistan, it was Jay Leno's wife and Larry David's wife and the like.



If was Cheney, Bush and a duped Colin Powell trying to cut deals with these thugs ang giving them millions of dollars.

deny, deny , deny
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
But an NFL hero comes to mind....Although maybe not a hero in FYM.
talk to his family

about how they used his demise

and lied ablout it..
and what they think about it now.


there won't be any more people stepping up

for this dishonest Administration
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


talk to his family

about how they used his demise

and lied ablout it..
and what they think about it now.


there won't be any more people stepping up

for this dishonest Administration
Deep, I am well aware of the situation surrounding his death. It makes him no less a hero in my mind. He gave up more than most will see in their lives, for his country, for others.

Point being, there is an example of someone in relation to the opening of the thread that fits the mold of the old time stars.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:29 PM   #10
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I thought of him, too


I agree with what you say.


But, he went to Afghanistan to get BinLaden
who attacked us..


Iraq , the world knows
there is no link.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:51 PM   #11
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Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Back in the day, almost all actors and entertainers in America were patriotic.

They turned over their celebrity status to fight alongside of America's working class, risking their lives. These days, there's a better chance of your Hollywood lads to march alongside of Human Shield, who went to Iraq to disrupt our military operations.

Today's Hollywood types are screaming about some 2,000 US casualties and the billions of dollars invested in the war effort. Maybe they don't realize that we spent what would add up to over $2 trillion in today's cost adjustment on World War II.

Hmm...
First of all, you obviously believe that people in Hollywood are not patriotic. Is it because they - by and large - have been opposed to the war? They are unpatriotic because they are not happy that the government is ruining our country's credibility by making war? This war, let's not forget is a war based on lies - make no mistake about it, this phrase isn't just a liberal figure of speech or cliche. This war was based on outright lies - from the 9/11-Saddam consipiracy to the "sexed up" WMD intelligence.
And, if standing up for your beliefs in the face of dangerone is one of the ideals that America is all about, then it would seem that anyone who has gone over to Iraq to engage in a Human Shield has acted remarkably American.
Additionally, you're phrase "some 2,000 US casualties" is an insult to those brave 2000+ men and women who gave their lives. How dare you you dismiss their lives and the importance of their lives! Each one of those soldiers had dreams, aspirations, loves, families - they were real people. And, may I ask how many Iraqis have died? Or, do their lives not mean as much as American? Are Iraqis somehow less human?
Finally, I think that comparing Iraq to WWII is the last place a conservative will want to go. America was involved in a two-front war campaign and yet still came out victorious in a much shorter amount of time than the war in Iraq has lasted - not to mention the "War on Terror." How long did it take to find Hitler? How long did it take to find Osama? Oh wait, we haven't.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:54 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Mac,

It was the lefties, the intreventionalists that were iching to jump into WWII

and the "Conservatives" America-First types that were fighting to keep us out.
Absolutely correct.

And not only that but in Great Britain pre 1939 it was almost exclusively the leftwingers that were warning about Hitler. Many of the upper classes and right wingers had a sneaking regard for the Fascists.

As it happens Churchill was a Conservative, from the upper class, but to his credit he was alive to the dangers of fascism, unlike many from his class.
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Old 11-06-2005, 06:02 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


you are so very wrong


it was the lefties that were out front in early 2001 protesting the Talaban in Afghanistan, it was Jay Leno's wife and Larry David's wife and the like.



If was Cheney, Bush and a duped Colin Powell trying to cut deals with these thugs ang giving them millions of dollars.

deny, deny , deny
Notice the full sentence that got cut off in your qoute:

"Yet many people who opposed the invasion never marched or had rally's to protest Saddam's invasion of IRAN, Invasion of KUWAIT, and attacks on ISRAEL and SAUDI ARABIA."

Were the lefties out in front in protesting these actions by Saddam? Did Jay Leno's Wife and Larry David's wife head a march against Saddam?

During these invasions and attacks by Saddam, President Bush was not really involved in politics to the degree he is today, Cheney did become Secretery of Defense under President Bush's father and was key in developing the strategy and leading the defense department and the military in its first major war since Vietnam in the 1991 Gulf War. Colin Powell was still in the military during this time.
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Old 11-06-2005, 11:01 PM   #14
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Calling people unpatriotic for opposing the war in Iraq is so 2003.
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:21 AM   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Before the Stars Left their Stripes Behind

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2




Were the lefties out in front in protesting these actions by Saddam? Did Jay Leno's Wife and Larry David's wife head a march against Saddam?

Where were the righties when Iraq was invading Iran? Oh yeah, shaking hands and giving Saddam weapons
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