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Old 05-11-2003, 10:57 PM   #46
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Klaus,


"remember how the US military behaved when they tested a bombs."

Many of the effects were long term and unknown at the time. Its absurd to think the military did it on purpose to cause select number of soldiers and civilians long term health problems.


"US army denied (and lied) a long time that they used uranium-amunition in Grafenwöhr (Germany) for training."

I've known since the early 1980s that the US army used Depleted Uranium shells at the training center in Germany. I would be shocked if they did not.

The German Leopard II tank has also trained with Depleted Uranium rounds in Germany as well as the British Challenger Tank. Shhhhh......we don't want the America/Bush bashers to know that.

Every study that has been done has shown that depleted uranium is only harmful if you injest it in massive amounts. If you had depleted uranium cereral for breakfast every day that would not be good for you. But smoking and drinking alchohal will most likely cause you more health problems.

Depleted Uranium is 40% less radioactive than natural uranium and is also less toxic. Natural Uranium is everywhere. Its in the water you drink, your food, its even in you.

In the USA and South Africa, the health of Uranium Mine Workers was studied from the early 1940s to the early 1970s. It was discovered that natural uranuim, more radioactive and toxic than depleted uranium, was breathed in large doses. Despite this, the workers watched over 30 years experienced no increase in health problems than the general population.

US soldiers who were wounded in the 1991 Gulf War and currently have depleted Uranium stuck in their bodies have not experienced an increase in health problems.

To many people in the media think that Depleted Uranium is some how the equilivant of an A-BOMB. This could not be further from the truth.
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:14 AM   #47
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Sting2: it shouldn't kick off another Uranium Discussion, it was just the proof that they lied. They told the public for years that they wouldn't use Uranium amunition.

Imho depleted Uranium gets a serious problem when it's not a big piece but it becomes dust (either from the hit of the uranium shell against another solid thing or simply from not removing it, corosion and so on.

There are various studies ongoing, some think it's unproblematic, some think it is problematic. If you take a look how non military all over the world has to store Depleted Uranium you get an idea that it might be not that harmless as the military thinks.

That brings me back to the a-bomb tests:
exactly the same, theere were verry reliable scientists who warned about the danger, the military simply ignored it, also they knew it MIGHT be dangerous (that's why they ensured that ex-soldiers can't go on trial because of that for years i guess!)
If you know about probable dangers but say it's safe you lie as the cigarette industry did for years.

Charles Ferguson, Physiker, and (ex Officier?) of the US-Navy and Member of the "american association of scientists" (hope i retranslated that correctly) Published stuff about the danger of Depleted Uranium ammunition, if you like to discuss that we can reanimate that "Depleted Uranium" thread, and i will post more about it.
Of course it's not like a a-bomb if media reports about it like if it was they have a) no clue b) abuse the problem in favour of sensationanism.

So i'm still convinced that people who decide to use Depleted Uranium ammuniton (and they ARE informed about the risks) have a lack of responsibility.

to get back to the topic.

It's the job of quality TV and newspapers to show the real risks (no sensationalism or panic-attitude) of all these things so that the citizens can make up their own mind and take their responsibility in a democracy (or republic )

Klaus
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:19 PM   #48
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Klaus,

I've never seen anything that the US Army was found to be undisputibly guilty of lying about the use of Depleted Uranium rounds in Germany. I've known that the US Army has used such rounds in germany since the early 80s. The German and British military also used and fired such rounds in Germany.

The US soldiers who were wounded in the Gulf War and were in vehicles hit by Depleted Uranium rounds had Depleted Uranium inbedded in their bodies and also breathed in large amounts of Depleted Uranium dusts. There are nearly 50 Gulf War Vets that are in this catagory that were in vehicles hit by Depleted Uranium rounds and breathed in the dusts as well as having particles lodged in their bodies.

Again, these soldiers have been monitered for 12 years and have not experienced any health problems that could be do to Depleted Uranium. Their first problems that could result from the injestetion of massive amounts of Depleted Uranium is Kidney problems. The soldiers don't have any. In addition, one can measure the amount of dusts breathed in by the amount of Depleted Uranium found in the soldiers urine. As time has gone by, the amount of Depleted Uranium found in the soldiers Urine has gone done.

If that were not enough, there are 30 years of studies of people who work in Uranium mines who breath in Natural Uranium dusts on a daily basis. Thousands of workers were studied and monitered. After 30 years of studies, the workers had no more health problems than people among the general population.

"So i'm still convinced that people who decide to use Depleted Uranium ammuniton (and they ARE informed about the risks) have a lack of responsibility."

So my friends and others in the military in Iraq are irresponible for using Depleted Uranium, a substance that is half as toxic and radioactive as natural uranium?

The fact is, people staging a protests about Depleted Uranium use in Germany are far more likely to suffer health problems from the drinking of beer and smoking many will do later at a bar or pub.
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Old 05-13-2003, 05:18 AM   #49
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STING2: since they said for years that they don't use it in german public i'd say they lied.

You are welcome to open a Depleted Uranium thread to discuss this with me, i guess it's not really ontopic here anymore.

Klaus

p.s. " The fact is, people staging a protests about Depleted Uranium use in Germany are far more likely to suffer health problems from the drinking of beer and smoking many will do later at a bar or pub."

absolutely right! but not every protester drinks alcohol and smokes
And.. they have a free choice to drink or not to drink, if you live in the city where they use the Depleted Uranium the choice of non breathing is no option
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