BBC Blasts US Broadcasters - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-08-2003, 02:23 PM   #31
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
p.s. nbcrusader, if you'd like I can try to sit down with a pad of paper tonite and watch the news to get specific examples for you.
Thank you!
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-08-2003, 07:27 PM   #32
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Sula,

I have travelled through Europe as well and currently have friends in Iraq that fought in the war. In fact one of them is a captain in the Marine Corp. He is a Cobra Helicopter Pilot and was extensively involved in all combat phases of the war. Amazingly, there is a camera in the Cobra Helicopter along with essentially a VCR. He has every mission of every day recorded. This is unedited combat footage of fighting he was involved in. He plans to bring the tapes when he comes home in August.

Another friend who is also a Captain in the US Marine Corp finally got home this week. He explained to me last night that these alleged abuses are simply false. He went all the way to Baghdad with his Combat Engineer Batalion. The thing he was most amazed by was how little colateral damage there was from the air strikes and fighting.

Despite what other people may say, I'm going to trust people I have been friends with for nearly 19 years and are officers in the US Marine Corp. Honesty, Integrity, and objectivity is what you will get from them. There is no other media or aid organization that has been in more area's of Iraq than the US military. No other organization has been in a better position to judge what has actually happened in these combat situations.

If an aid organization you know of says there were human rights abuses PROVE IT! The men and women of the US armed forces have put their lives on the line and have experienced incredibly difficult situations. The don't deserve unfair and unproven allegations to be thrown against them.

As far as the necessity of the war, Iraq was required to completely disarm all its WMD following the 1991 Gulf War. After 12 years Iraq had failed to do so. The only way to disarm and uncooperative dictator is through military force. Peaceful inspectors can't do it. They are not armed.
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 05-08-2003, 10:59 PM   #33
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Sting,

Iraq is the size of California. According to GW Bush.

As fantastic as your friends are, the fact that they did not see something does not mean it did not happen.


I was going to make a list of things that never happened in California because my friends and I did not see them. I have a friend who has a helicopter pilot’s license and spends a lot of time in the air, too. I think you get my point.
__________________
deep is online now  
Old 05-09-2003, 03:36 AM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Deep,

"As fantastic as your friends are, the fact that they did not see something does not mean it did not happen."


"I was going to make a list of things that never happened in California because my friends and I did not see them. I have a friend who has a helicopter pilot’s license and spends a lot of time in the air, too. I think you get my point."

Sorry but thats not the same as being a Captain in the US Marine Corp and being involved in the intimate details of military planning across the board as well as being involved in implementing them. In addition, my one friend that is Cobra Helicopter Pilot knows and saw every night, half of the Combat Helicopter Crews the Marines had in their march towards Baghdad coming up the Tigris.

As a combat Helicopter Pilot, your always at the tip of the spear. If combat engagements are going on, your involved in them or friends and work mates are. Its not a matter of being everywhere at once, its the matter of being where the combat is taking place.

My friends are not the only one there of course, there are thousands of soldiers on the ground who would report much the same.

Indeed anything is possible. I can't say farmer Bill and his dog did not see that UFO early yesterday morning because I was not there helping milk the cows or whatever. But I know I'm not going to accuse and attempt to convict men of incredibly bravery, honesty and integrity, when there is no indisputible proof or evidence to suggest anything wrong was done by them.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 07:30 AM   #35
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 11:03 PM
STING2:

we don't talk about UFO sights of Iraqi farmers but about things people from the International Red Cross report!
I don't think that people from the Red Cross or people who investigate torture from Amnesty International or people from the Médecins Sans Frontières are less credible than US Soldiers.

The vast mayority of all groups above are honest men. If there is a difference in what they report we must investigate it and not denounce it as "UFO sights"

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 11:30 AM   #36
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 05:03 PM
I tend to trust reputable non-biased parties like the Red Cross. But Sting, you have taken a comment and run in a direction unintended for it. I was merely trying to help you understand why my views may be different than yours. Ie. trying to show you that different input and a different perspective can lead to one seeing events in a different light. Not to prove something to you. If you are unable to understand that it is possible for intelligent people with differing vantagepoints to come to differing opinions, then I'm afraid there is no point in discussion.

nb, i was out at a friend's the other night, but I haven't forgotten.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 02:53 PM   #37
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I've been reading BBC news at a site maintained by anti-Saddam Iraqis. While they do not like Saddam that's just about the only thing they agree on. The BBC's coverage is pretty graphic and reports on both good and bad stuff. The site's news coverage contains plenty of stuff about Saddam's atrocities. It also contains stuff that's critical of the Bush administration. I don't think it's an either-or situation. Criticizing the Bush administration doesn't translate into being pro-Saddam or whatever. You can be pleased that Saddam is gone and disagree with Act X of the Bush Administration.
Exactly.

Fox News cracks me up in particular (and the people who work there drive me up the wall). The article is dead on about Fox News.

There's bias all over the media, though, on both sides.

Which is sad.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 03:25 PM   #38
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 10:03 PM
I don't think you can keep all of the "bias" out of the news. But you can give various and sundry perspectives. There are both smart liberals and smart conservatives. Reasonable people can disagree. I think that when you forget that you're in trouble.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 06:10 PM   #39
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I don't think you can keep all of the "bias" out of the news. But you can give various and sundry perspectives. There are both smart liberals and smart conservatives. Reasonable people can disagree. I think that when you forget that you're in trouble.
Exactly.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 06:28 PM   #40
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Klaus,

Some these same aid organizations have sensationalized other events in the pasts. Remember Jenin in the West Bank last year. There was supposed to be 7,000 dead civilians. It turns out there were only 48 and the evidence suggests that all the deaths was accidental.

What about all these reports predicting a million Iraqi dead in the last war from these same organizations. Again, totally false. The only reason I brought up the UFO's was because people often take what they think is indeed a UFO and run with it without investigating more before they fabricate wild stories.

The soldiers on the ground are objective and are not involved in writing media reports with political bias. They stick with the facts that are there and are not involved in the realm of pure speculation unlike some of these aid organizations.

More importantly, the soldiers were THERE! They were in the combat and in the fighting. The Red Cross was not! When my friend gets home with his gun camera footage, I'll look to see if there are any Red Cross or Amnesty people, but I don't think there are going to be any.

"I don't think that people from the Red Cross or people who investigate torture from Amnesty International or people from the Médecins Sans Frontières are less credible than US Soldiers."

"The vast mayority of all groups above are honest men. If there is a difference in what they report we must investigate it and not denounce it as "UFO sights""

I would trust the US military before I would trust any other organization on the planet. But I would trust the US military even more in this case because they were involved in the COMBAT that we speak of! The Red Cross was not or at least was not present in the numbers that US soldiers were.

Until an allegation is proven, its essentially a UFO sighting. What I can't stand is the attempt by many people in here to convict honest men and women of crimes for which there is no evidence.

Sula,

I understand where you get your views from and happen to know about those organizations. At the same time think about what its like to have a friend of 19 years extensively involved in the combat that we are talking about. I know for a fact that some people in those organizations if they could view his gun camera footage would be accusing him of war crimes, when in fact that would not be the case at all. Some of these organizations have indeed unfairly treated the Israely defense force in the pasts. I also think some in the aid organizations are ignorant of military weapons and tactics and would be more accurate in what they had to say if they eductated themselves a little more on such things.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 05-09-2003, 07:58 PM   #41
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 11:03 PM
STING2:

The military did tell us lots of crap also... i don't believe one side just in a blind manner, all i'm asking for is if there are discrepancies we should take a closer look just to ensure that everything is going fine.

Klaus

p.s. the International Red Cross was also there - they say they interviewed tortured people in Afghanistan for example, they say they weren't allowed to examine the upper level of one building also the geneva convention says that they are allowed to do this.

Other Human right organisations report the same - all i'm asking is that we examine it to ensure that there is no small group who abuses his power and pulls the name of the US army in the dirt by tortuing (or letting torture) prisoners

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 05-10-2003, 05:16 PM   #42
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Klaus,

"The military did tell us lots of crap also.."

Like what?
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 05-11-2003, 07:49 AM   #43
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 10:03 PM
STING,
Do you trust any media or aid agency reports of what happened in Iraq, or do you think that only US soldiers (like your friend) can really tell you what happened there?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 05-11-2003, 08:55 PM   #44
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 11:03 PM
STING2: i don't want to turn this into a military-bash thread, so just verry few examples:

remember how the US military behaved when they tested a bombs.

US army denied (and lied) a long time that they used uranium-amunition in Grafenwöhr (Germany) for training.

Remember the OSI

The US army isn#t the only one and it's not the worst one - they are humans, and they will ever be imperfect, that's why we need unbiased control all institutions - even the military.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 05-11-2003, 10:37 PM   #45
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Fizzing,


"Do you trust any media or aid agency reports of what happened in Iraq, or do you think that only US soldiers (like your friend) can really tell you what happened there?"

I'm sure media or aid agencies can tell what is going on but if there is a dispute about what happened I'm going to side with the military. This is a military operation and there are so many in the civilian world that are so unedecuated about military tactics, weapons, and training. The military is free to go everywhere in Iraq and has been at the seen of the major combat and battles where as most media and aid agencies have not until after the fact.

The military is better equiped and better trained than the average reporter or aid worker. The men and women of the military are trained professionals and more free of the political bias that media(often involved in spin) and aid workers(often oriented politically to the left). They are more objective in what they report. The clearest example of this is the so called "Massacre at Jenin" that media and aid workers claimed killed 7,000 palestinians. The Israely military maintained that only a few dozen civilians were killed. The Israely military was proven right!
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com