Basing life on fashion, beauty, and little else.

[indra]

I have always despised the "chick" magazines, be they for young chicks or older ones. I have always found them to be filled with worthless dreck. Actually, I think it's pitiful that little girls would even want to read them. I just had so much else to do that impressing other people never really crossed my mind. Plus I've never really been much of a slave to fashion (or really even interested) or popularity or any of that stuff.

Doesn't mean I'm not screwed up, but at least I don't stress over my frickin' eyebrows (as long as I don't have a unibrow, I'm happy ).

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

OK, first off, I think we need MORE 12 year old little girls starting rock bands. Kick open the door of the male dominated music business.

Anyway... I'm agreeing with a lot of the points made in this thread. MrsSpringsteen, I agree that it's vital to have a good male role model for support and such in a young girl's life. I didn't really get that from my Dad, and I really feel that has played a big part in my self-esteem now. To this day I don't get much encouragement from my Dad, and it really, really hurts.

I also agree with bg in saying it is all in how you raise them. I know a lot of mothers who think if they pretty up their daughters life will be handed to them on a silver platter, but the problem is, these girls will never know how to think for themselves, lust after $300 shoes (not that there's anything wrong with being girly - I've been known to be that more often than not) and whose goal in life it will be to marry a rich guy.

These magazines really teach girls (and women) all the wrong things. I just canceled my subscription to Lucky magazine, because I found myself getting depressed each month when it arrived, over how expensive the clothes were and how thin the models were. It's sad that even now at 26 I'm finding myself getting worn down by all these sterotypes and worrying how I can fit into them, when I really should be focusing my energies on more important things.


PS - Sassy RULED.

PPS - I am a very girly girl, but I have a brain (OK, sometimes I have a brain. ). While there's plenty wrong with the images presented by women/teen mags, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be a girl's girl, as long as you've got your priorities straight.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally posted by indra
I just had so much else to do that impressing other people never really crossed my mind. Plus I've never really been much of a slave to fashion (or really even interested) or popularity or any of that stuff.

I always skipped over the fashion portion of the magazines when I read them. Still do if I ever read a magazine, be it Teen or People or whatever else. That was never the part that interested me. I always read the "true life" stories and the letters (that's the big reason I read a lot of magazines, to be honest-the letters) and the embarrassing moments bits and stuff like that.

Angela

 

[Bono's shades]

I had a subscription to Seventeen for a while when I was in high school back in the '80s. My parents got it for me for a present. I swear, I only read it for the Billy Idol and Madonna articles!

I don't think mags like that can do much harm as long as you see it as merely light reading/entertainment, not a guide for how to live your life. Unfortunately, some girls don't get much guidance from anywhere else as to how to live their life, and that's what causes problems.

 

[Tania]

but can you really draw a comparison to the damage done between perfection-pressure from a magazine in these highly specific catagories when "seventeen" is literally telling girls how to be girls in an all-encompasing manner?

I guess what I was trying to say is that most of these magazines tap into that whole "I'm not good enough" crap, that we all have in some form or another.

Like everyone has said before, the importance of positive role models can not be underestimated.

 

[BonosSaint]

We'll always be to blame for this because society will always value women (and men) for their beauty. It starts in grade school (or before) when study after study shows the attractive children are responded to much more than the less attractive children. To many people, beauty equals character. I posted a thread recently regarding Diana and Camilla, just to see what kind of reaction I got regarding a beautiful person versus a non beautiful person and I got about the reaction I expected. Many people blamed Camilla for breaking up the marriage, while giving Diana a pass for breaking up several other marriages, relationships. She was the beautiful princess. Camilla was the ugly villainess. (Not for all) So for all the high talk we do....Kids aren't dumb. They see the score. Beautiful people get privileges the rest don't. It is not right, but it is reality.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

We'll always be to blame for this because society will always value women (and men) for their beauty. It starts in grade school (or before) when study after study shows the attractive children are responded to much more than the less attractive children. To many people, beauty equals character. I posted a thread recently regarding Diana and Camilla, just to see what kind of reaction I got regarding a beautiful person versus a non beautiful person and I got about the reaction I expected. Many people blamed Camilla for breaking up the marriage, while giving Diana a pass for breaking up several other marriages, relationships. She was the beautiful princess. Camilla was the ugly villainess. (Not for all) So for all the high talk we do....Kids aren't dumb. They see the score. Beautiful people get privileges the rest don't. It is not right, but it is reality.

*steering offtopic* Although what I'm about to say has nothing to do with the issue really: Diana was a wonderful person who helped a lot of people, there's no denying that, BUT as far as I'm concerned, she wasn't particularly beautiful physically. She did have lovely big eyes, wore some lovely clothes, and had a fantastic figure when she wasn't starving herself... but she had a horsey face. That said, compared to the rest of the Royals, she was a dashing beauty. As for Camilla, she many be many things, but she's certainly not ugly in my opinion.

I like to think that Diana's beauty came from the sort of person she was (meaning the kind, warm, thoughtful, and loving aspects of her personality). As you point out, it shouldn't matter at all.

All the supposed 'public outpouring of grief' when Diana died struck me as being very, very false... where was all the love, concern and hysteria for her wellbeing before she died? Yes, it was tragic a young woman died. It was even more tragic that 2 boys lost their mother. I wouldn't argue with that at all, and I know that a lot of people were genuinely upset, but most of the public howling seemed completely fake and over the top to me. People here don't bother marking the anniversary much any more - real grief doesn't dissipate that fast. But that's another completely different can of worms.

I'll probably get shot for that by a load of people pretending they go to bed crying their hearts out every night over poor Diana now.

To those who just think I'm just being nasty or cynical - where were your bleeding hearts and sobs of despair when Mother Teresa died? I don't hear you going into hysterics over the starving African kids either.

Anyway - back to the point.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

This is stating the obvious:
http://www.in.gov/icw/articles/article_8.html


This was interesting if hypocritical. It's a bit like Playboy bint Jenny McCarthy being voted World's Sexiest Woman by various mens magazines. She made a fortune from getting her enormous fake knockers out, and afterwards said she wished she'd never done it in the first place and that other girls shouldn't do what she did. Very easy to say after you've "earned" a few million. Moron.
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/resources/articles/body_image/model_kid.cfm


Teen Vogue: 'finding yourself and what makes you feel happy and healthy is always in fashion'.

15 pages later: ads for breast enhancement tablets. For $229.95, you too can grow bigger boobs, 'feel more beautiful and sexier than ever' and have 'more self esteem, more confidence.'

 

[beegee]

in TEEN vogue you saw an ad for breast enhancement?

which issue, please. i'd like to look that up for myself.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

in TEEN vogue you saw an ad for breast enhancement?

which issue, please. i'd like to look that up for myself.

Sure, go ahead: it was the Autumn (sorry, fall) edition, 2001.

And while you're there, see if you can get hold of Seventeen's September issue: it "has a one- quarter page ad for Bloussant tablets on Page 331. It is at least the third ad for for the product the last two years, said Jennifer Maguire, the Seventeen spokeswoman."

 

[all_i_want]

you girls are making such a big deal out of this. we should actually include breast implants in health insurance, and social security programs, because it is a useful enhancement. so what, girls will look great and guys will make the money, then they'll go home and have a bunch of children. granted, neither of them may have much personality, or they might not be nice, but who cares?

that is what american psycho has taught us all, and god knows its a valuable lesson. yes.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

you girls are making such a big deal out of this. we should actually include breast implants health insurance, and social security programs, because it is a useful enhancement. so what, girls will look great and guys will make the money, then they'll go home and have a bunch of children. granted, neither of them may have much personality, or they might not be nice, but who cares?

that is what american psycho has taught us all, and god knows its a valuable lesson. yes.

Just one little request...
Try that one again, and this time use English so that I have a snowflake's chance in hell of being able to decipher it.

 

[all_i_want]

i thought it was rather easy to understand? whats there to 'decipher'?

 

[sallycinnamon78]

I was wondering, could you possibly word that post so that it makes sense?

 

[all_i_want]

you girls are making such a big deal out of this. women are obsessed with themselves, so what?? it has always been this way! women always bought all kinds of things for make-up or whatever.

feeling good about oneself is a NEED. some people satisfy this by doing charity work, some people go become rock stars, and some people get breast implants. actually, breast implants should be included in social security programs, and the expenses should be covered by health insurance, just like it is done for a bypass.

what is wrong with girls wanting to stunning? after all, that is all guys are after. after all, as girls are under pressure for being beautiful, guys are under pressure for being successful and making heaps of money. granted, they might not be real people in your eyes, but in the end, who cares? men will work their asses off to be more successful, lose their hair, love or marriage because of it. women will get breast implants so they'll still feel like they are good looking and feel strong because of this. if you dont like it, dont do it. everything has its downside, it is eventually a balance between the risks-benefits.

the point is, you say the society puts pressure on these girls to look good, and its not fair. hell no, its not fair. but in the end its some kind of sick game we're playing, and if you cant handle it, you dont play.

you may argue that our societies might come to such a point that personality doesnt matter anymore... but oh wait, i think we were at that point 2 decades ago.

so yes, some girls want to look good, and they will go any distance to do this. no its not fair, no its not good, but thats the way they want it. you cant solve that problem, so deal with it.

"This was interesting if hypocritical. It's a bit like Playboy bint Jenny McCarthy being voted World's Sexiest Woman by various mens magazines. She made a fortune from getting her enormous fake knockers out, and afterwards said she wished she'd never done it in the first place and that other girls shouldn't do what she did. Very easy to say after you've "earned" a few million. Moron."

also, would you rather have her say 'oh breast implants are awesome, everyone should get one, even 8 year old girls!'? if there is a demand, there is supply. just hating people because they are trying to look good is totally unacceptable in my book.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

also, would you rather have her say 'oh breast implants are awesome, everyone should get one, even 8 year old girls!'? if there is a demand, there is supply. just hating people because they are trying to look good is totally unacceptable in my book.

Oh dear.

It's not a case of hating anybody - it's about being a bad, unhealthy example and a complete and utter hypocrite.

You are right about demand and supply, of course - but what concerns me, is the warped logic behind all the practise. That is, the image of the "perfect woman", as if there is such a thing, being damaging, unrealistic and unnatural. Personally I believe we can look good without shoving bits of plastic in various places where they don't belong.

As for the attitude that that's the way it is and some things will never change - that's complete horseshit.

You think this is an acceptable situation, with 10-year-old children starving themselves in the name of "beauty"?

 

[beegee]

thanks for the info, sally. i'm really surprised by that. those ads have no place in those mags.

oh, and all_i_want, until you can say something that's not simply intended to inflame, shut the hell up.

thank you.

 

[Dalton]

Forget Seventeen, you know what was really bad for girls when we were younger?

Jem and the Hollograms!


When Jem is her normal self she is a relationship with this guy who she loves, but everytime she changes into her alter ego (Jem) this guy (not knowing it is the same person) completely chases after her without regard for his girlfriend. And she completely accepts it.

Come on now, that messes with a girls mind.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Lol, Dalton!

OK, first off, I think we need MORE 12 year old little girls starting rock bands. Kick open the door of the male dominated music business.

Right on, sista!

i thought it was rather easy to understand? whats there to 'decipher'?

So sorry - I forgot to answer that one.

The post didn't make any sense, logically, or conceptually. You're free to talk as much horseshit as you please, just like the rest of us, but at least try and express it in a way that is legible, grammatical, and shows evidence of some form of thought process.

Just a suggestion.

you girls are making such a big deal out of this.

How absolutely shocking of us. Who would have thought that we'd be concerned about an issue that affects us directly throughout our lives?

Oh, and incidentally, I'm a woman, not a girl. Have you ever actually met any women apart from your Mom? No, I suspected not.

women are obsessed with themselves, so what?? it has always been this way! women always bought all kinds of things for make-up or whatever.

Thanks for the history lesson there.

You've got a hell of a lot to learn, sweetheart.

As for what's wrong with girls wanting to be "stunning" - I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with wanting to look nice and to feel attractive. That's the case whether you are male or female. What is wrong, in my opinion, is encouraging the sort of rubbish you spewed a few posts ago:

so yes, some girls want to look good, and they will go any distance to do this. no its not fair, no its not good, but thats the way they want it. you cant solve that problem, so deal with it.

You think girls deliberately choose to be that way? So it's nothing to do with psycholgical damage and unhealthiness? Please. Get REAL.

granted, they might not be real people in your eyes, but in the end, who cares?

What are you, 12? When did I say that someone who has breast implants is not a "real person"? I didn't - that's what comes of having a few braincells. That imbecilic comment shows that, when it comes to this sort of crap, you're the one with a major problem.

 

[all_i_want]

i guess the irony and sarcasm in post was not very obvious.

maybe i should restate some of my points so it will make more sense to you.

yes, i actually DEFEND 12 year olds having liposuction AND breast implants. i also encourage eating unhealthy fast food, so we can fill them up - and suck them off later, in the hospital. make money either way! thats the way cookie crumbles.

also, i think the social security systems are handling everything a bit TOO well, so maybe we should add cosmetic surgery to the bill, just to benefit from the IDLE capacity in the hospitals.

another thing, i also think girls are simply out there so men will like them and marry them some day. that seems to be the pinnacle of female ambition.
is there anything wrong with? of course not, its only natural. men hunt, women have babies, isnt that right?

and yeah, i am sick of uptight feminists. what is all the equality crap about? we are all equal under the umbrella of capitalism, what are they crying about? glass ceiling? no such thing, no sir. if women were not so gross incompetent at their jobs, they just MIGHT get promoted!




i am pretty sure you will take this post in the face value as well, because irony is such an alien term, sarcasm and cynicism are so hard to understand and the post is 'impossible to decipher'

 

[all_i_want]

since my post was such a hard one to read, and virtually impossible to understand, let me give you a walk through.

actually, breast implants should be included in social security programs, and the expenses should be covered by health insurance, just like it is done for a bypass.

oh yes. cause social security systems have money to burn, and this is such a huge health issue.
hell, i dont even support state owned social security, but hey, my opinion just might change if they give women free breast implants!!

what is wrong with girls wanting to stunning? after all, that is all guys are after. after all, as girls are under pressure for being beautiful, guys are under pressure for being successful and making heaps of money. granted, they might not be real people in your eyes, but in the end, who cares?

yeah you didnt say that they are not real people. the whole thing is a big scam. we lose the things that make us real people, looking for success, beauty, fame. and people are so ok with it, it is rather sad. in a book i read a while ago, american psycho, by ellis, the guy actually tells his girlfriend that she should get implants cause she is not looking 'stunning' and she is not much of a 'hardbody'. actually, if you went back to the original post, you might even see a reference about this.

you may argue that our societies might come to such a point that personality doesnt matter anymore... but oh wait, i think we were at that point 2 decades ago.

so yes, some girls want to look good, and they will go any distance to do this. no its not fair, no its not good, but thats the way they want it. you cant solve that problem, so deal with it.

deal with it. one of my favorite phrases ever. your country is invaded? deal with it. you lost your children, deal with it. you lost your wife, deal with it. youre dead, deal with it. so it gets its very own spot here.

you might not argue that our society has come to a point where personality is of no value, but i just did. over there. its been quite a while since that happened, so we might have lost sight of it.

also, would you rather have her say 'oh breast implants are awesome, everyone should get one, even 8 year old girls!'? if there is a demand, there is supply. just hating people because they are trying to look good is totally unacceptable in my book.

oh yeah, this is the best. me defending a playboy model. how is it possible not to? and of course, mental and physical health of little girls MUST be seen in terms of the market economy. who would think a twisted, screwed up, evil, evil guy like myself, would value their lives more than any given commodity? after all, capitalism has solved EVERYTHING, why not this? it feeds, clothes, and entertains the world. the rich part of it at least.

anyway, i see some of you are incapable to spot irony and most of my posts are gonna be incredibly painful for you, so i would like apologize for any inconvenience.. not really. deal with it.

 

[BonosSaint]

Point taken, All I Want. Maybe we're lacking a little humor here. There is room for irreverence in everything. Even here.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

since my post was such a hard one to read, and virtually impossible to understand, let me give you a walk through.

in a book i read a while ago, american psycho, by ellis, the guy actually tells his girlfriend that she should get implants cause she is not looking 'stunning' and she is not much of a 'hardbody'. actually, if you went back to the original post, you might even see a reference about this.

deal with it. one of my favorite phrases ever. your country is invaded? deal with it. you lost your children, deal with it. you lost your wife, deal with it. youre dead, deal with it. so it gets its very own spot here.

you might not argue that our society has come to a point where personality is of no value, but i just did. over there. its been quite a while since that happened, so we might have lost sight of it.

Fair enough. Yes I did see your American Psycho reference, and I did think you were possibly being "ironic" - just wanted to make sure, originally, but started getting somewhat overenthusiastic telling you a few things. Always good fun at 6am.

i am pretty sure you will take this post in the face value as well, because irony is such an alien term, sarcasm and cynicism are so hard to understand and the post is 'impossible to decipher'

It is hard to spot irony and use of potential intellect in a post with no understandable grammar or train of thought... simple as that really.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I go back and forth on how much or how little I think these magazines influence young girls. In observing children in my life, they seem to naturally gravitate towards certain things on their own and ignore other things, as though they were born with certain attractions. And in my own personal experience, I grew up in a house with an older sister who began designing and making clothes for our Barbie dolls when she was 8 or 9 years old, and today she is a successful fashion designer. So our house was full of teen and fashion magazines yet I had absolutely no interest in them at all except to read the music columns and look at the pictures of rock stars. Who knows why my sister became fashion and looks obsessed and I didn't--or at least not until I was in my 30s and started having enough money to actually pay attention to that stuff. She is and always has been terribly concerned about having the 'right' shoes and the 'right' purse and she scoffs at wearing last season's fashion. Where did she get that from? It was like from the moment she laid eyes on Barbie she had to start trying to be Barbie, whereas the moment I heard the Beatles on the radio at 3 I was obsessed with music. We grew up pretty isolated on a farm and it's not like we had a lot of outside influences. It seems to me that her fashion and beauty obsession existed first, the magazines came later, not the reverse. I really don't know.