Baseball bat abortion

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Do Miss America said:


Well come on. DNA doesn't make a baby, I have DNA in my hair.

Look at it this way. An 8 week old fetus when taken out of the womb will not develop into a child. It's a clump of cells. It takes more than a sperm hitting an egg to make a baby.
What a tiny concept. It's all about picking and choosing. As long as there's a doctor around, it seems you approve of anything.
 
Last edited:
Macfistowannabe said:
What a tiny concept. None of you have replied to my post about picking and choosing. As long as there's a doctor around, it seems you approve of anything.

doctors don't hit women with baseball bats.
 
And you are picking and choosing about the woman's life. Wouldn't you rather see a woman taken care of by a doctor rather than a bat? That is something you aren't answering!
 
So it's the weapon used that brings you to this conclusion, although the female was willing to go through with it. Liberal mindset has it that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body. That mindset can defend prostitution as well, but primarily, it can also defend this young woman's choice to have her boyfriend beat her with a bat. Nice mindset, it's real clever.
 
Do Miss America said:
And you are picking and choosing about the woman's life. Wouldn't you rather see a woman taken care of by a doctor rather than a bat? That is something you aren't answering!
I don't support either form of taking an innocent life. Now if the woman was a cancer patient, yes I would rather have a doctor take care of her.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
So it's the weapon used that brings you to this conclusion, although the female was willing to go through with it. Liberal mindset has it that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body. That mindset can defend prostitution as well, but primarily, it can also defend this young woman's choice to have her boyfriend beat her with a bat. Nice mindset, it's real clever.

if you're asking about prostitution, yes it should be legal, and regulated -- keeps everybody safer. works well in the Netherlands.

yes, women can do whatever they want with their bodies. and they have to live with the consequences, whether that's having a lifetime of fantastic sex with many anonymous partners, getting an STD the first time you have sex, having an abortion and living life filled with regret, or having an abortion and knowing she did the right thing for herself.
 
Irvine511 said:


if you're asking about prostitution, yes it should be legal, and regulated -- keeps everybody safer. works well in the Netherlands.

yes, women can do whatever they want with their bodies. and they have to live with the consequences, whether that's having a lifetime of fantastic sex with many anonymous partners, getting an STD the first time you have sex, having an abortion and living life filled with regret, or having an abortion and knowing she did the right thing for herself.
How about a "woman's right to allow her boyfriend to beat the piss out of her with a baseball bat?" Would you like to defend that? I hope this couple gets some serious counseling. I wonder how they could dream up anything more awful.
 
What's done is done, nothing can change that.

I think more importantly in this case, the issues that need to be addressed are the ones that would drive a young man and a young woman to take such drastic and barbaric measures into their own hands.

Think about it.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
So it's the weapon used that brings you to this conclusion, although the female was willing to go through with it. Liberal mindset has it that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body. That mindset can defend prostitution as well, but primarily, it can also defend this young woman's choice to have her boyfriend beat her with a bat. Nice mindset, it's real clever.

I like how you haven't answered the issue of sex-ed. If you aren't going to educate the public as to what true responsibility sex is then your starch stance on abortion is useless.

Do you realize that there are teens that still think they can tell if someone is "clean" by looking at them, that they won't get pregnant certain times of the month, that the "pull out" method is safe, and then there are teens that have had absolutely no sex ed whatsoever. Conservatives are so damn scared to talk about sex with their children for fear of promoting sex that it's led to generations of kids teaching themselves. There is such a movement of abstinence only or nothing at all that many kids are slipping through the cracks.

What's clever is you can't see beyond your small frame of life. You've never been a girl at the age of 15 and pregnant, in fact you never will know what that feels like.
 
Do Miss America said:
I like how you haven't answered the issue of sex-ed. If you aren't going to educate the public as to what true responsibility sex is then your starch stance on abortion is useless.

Do you realize that there are teens that still think they can tell if someone is "clean" by looking at them, that they won't get pregnant certain times of the month, that the "pull out" method is safe, and then there are teens that have had absolutely no sex ed whatsoever. Conservatives are so damn scared to talk about sex with their children for fear of promoting sex that it's led to generations of kids teaching themselves. There is such a movement of abstinence only or nothing at all that many kids are slipping through the cracks.

What's clever is you can't see beyond your small frame of life. You've never been a girl at the age of 15 and pregnant, in fact you never will know what that feels like.
Before you posted on these forums, I talked quite a bit about sex-ed. I think both abstinence and protection should be taught. I'm assuming you weren't a 15 year old pregnant female before either, so what's the point? May I assume you don't know what it's like to be a convicted murderer either? My concern is not about "being scared", it's about a widely accepted form of flushing an innocent life down the toilet. I don't think we're teaching enough sex ed. I think it should be as important as math.

What gets me is the people who basically play with fire and expect not to get burned. People are simply refusing to take responsibility for their actions. The mentality is this simple: I don't want my baby, so I'm going to kill it.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Who said that?

I was asking. I know you don't have a blase attitude toward legal abortion, but at least it's done in a safe environment which doesn't envoke this same reaction as this case does.
 
I don't see why any of us are so shocked by this case. If you think it's so awful you should either accept safe, legal abortion or make sure that women/girls don't get pregnant in the first place (that means be willing to promote and pay for contraceptives, even if you don't personally care for them). If you don't want to allow abortions, you need to be willing to come up with a VIABLE alternative (and having the baby is not always viable), instead of just being horrified. Making abortion illegal (or even mostly illegal) will make this type of case much more common. So don't be so shocked.

How about this for an idea to eliminate most (but not all) abortions -- all people (male and female) should be on birth control until they document that they are willing and able to have and support any children they may create. :wink:
 
Last edited:
I think Indra has a valid point about why alternatives should be presented. Of course we can't forget about adoption. It was legal last time I checked.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
I think Indra has a valid point about why alternatives should be presented. Of course we can't forget about adoption. It was legal last time I checked.

But one must bear the baby first. Sometimes, for various reasons, that isn't viable.

And you know it irks me when people talk about not being able to get an adoptable baby because there are so many abortions (yes, I know I'm going off on a tangent here). Makes the pregnant woman sound like a cow or something. I sure wouldn't want to be someone's cow...just a means for someone else to have a child. And yet that's how it often sounds when some people promote adoption (not all, but enough to make it seem not much better than the human equivalent of a puppy mill). If I'm pregnant, and didn't want to be in the first place, the last thing I'm going to want to feel like is some production machine.
 
I agree with indra

it might be difficult to detach emotions on a topic like abortions
but usually when someone has a problem you try to figure out:
A. what the exact problem is
B. what the situation of that person is

I can present my moral and ethics to someone time & time again
but in the end they're probably better of with a solution that works for them instead of something that works for me
 
U2Kitten said:
I knew I shouldn't have clicked on Indra's post. Nothing sets my temper off worse than the stupid term 'anti-choice.' That really boils my blood and makes me want to write a diatribe. Both pro and anti choice are worthless labels, because all different people approve or disapprove of different things. Unless you agree or disagree with EVERY choice it's hypocritical. But of course, those 'choice' labels are only cushy little covers for what abortion really is. Shut up with the fucking choice bullshit. It's pro abortion and anti abortion, and if you don't feel comfortable with those labels perhaps you need to reconsider your position. (btw I feel the same way about the terms pro and anti life)

Anti-choice is EXACTLY what it is though. Pro-abortion, which you seem to prefer, would mean that the person wants every woman to have an abortion, which is generally not the case. So the proper term is pro-choice, since what I advocate is the choice. For instance, you have children -- if I was pro-abortion, I would say that you should have aborted them, and personally, if you want them, that's great, you should have them. I think that you have the right to choose to have your children or the choice not to (and you have made that choice). But that was your decision...your CHOICE.

And if you know damned well that if pro-choice or anti-choice means in terms of abortion, not everything else. Well, maybe you don't, but you should as it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
 
Do Miss America said:
And you are picking and choosing about the woman's life. Wouldn't you rather see a woman taken care of by a doctor rather than a bat? That is something you aren't answering!

This 'woman' "CHOSE" to be hit with a baseball bat! And aren't you all for her having a 'choice'? Well you wouldn't want to deny her a choice and be anti choice now would you?

/extreme sarcasm/

People seem to be forgetting she was in on this and wanted it done. It wasn't like he held her down and abused her! She sat there and let him do it! This was her CHOICE! The only victim is the baby!

Also everyone who is screaming that she should have gone to a clinic is forcing THEIR opinion on this girl. Using the baseball bat was her choice, and denying her that choice is no different than telling her she can't get an abortion! See, maybe going to a clinic is right for YOU, but she's not you, and this is what she chose. You cannot force your beilef system on her! It's her choice, her decision about her own body! Her body her choice, isn't that what you believe?
 
Last edited:
Irvine511 said:



darling, i was refering to your deliberate use of quotation marks -- the way i read your post, you don't believe that it's a scientific fact that a fetus is not a person. if you do, but are still anti-choice, that's a different matter. and if i read those quotes wrong, then i apologize, but you'd do well to refrain from the name calling as it weakens your arguments even further.


Oh sooooooo sorry I chose not to be subtle and vague in my namecalling. Actually saying you are condescending is not namecalling, it is stating a fact. Pointing out that you are being condescending does not weaken my argument. (Note to BVS and Dread, what Irivine said IS CONDESCENDING, but I really DOUBT either of you two will have ANYTHING to say about it.) HOW does it weaken my argument. I think I need to get something straight here. In this forum it is ok to call people bigots or homophobes because of their belief system (which is twisted to "prove" the lame ass accusations) but saying someone is condescending is out. But no wait, even then its not, it is only when people with certain views say it that it is not acceptable. Gotcha!

I used the quotes BECAUSE science says the life cycle begins at conception yet ironically science also says life begins after the 1st trimester. That is why i referred to it as "scientific fact", because one view is in complete contrast to the other. You do not need to be a scientist to KNOW that. All you need is the ability to read the written word.

Oh an just some words of advice to everyone, if you are not a musician do not attempt to analyze Edge's guitar solos. If you are not a politician do not talk politics. If you are not a pastor do not speak about theology etc. etc. Thank you Irvine for pointing out that if we are not professionals in the area of which we speak, we really shouldn't have an opinion on things.
 
Okay, can everyone please keep their tempers in check in this thread?

I don't want to close it (well, okay, maybe I do), but I will if we can't return to having a civil, polite discussion without name-calling and condescension. This goes for BOTH sides.
 
Irvine511 said:


last time i checked, hitting women with a baseball bat isn't a medical procedure.

AH lovely. Another person quoting what I said but leaving out the key element. I asked you what if this boy had done it with the apporiate medical equipment. Changing my words around, being evasive and not answering a direct question is not really an effective means of discourse.

I love how you still failed to answer the question in the context which it was posed. You took one post of mine and made it into something it is not. Let me demonstrate.

BonoVoxSupastar said:
One's legal and one isn't. That is the point here.

My reply to BVS...

thacraic said:
So what if this guy had the proper medical equipment to perform the procedure. Then what would he be charged with? Practicing medicine without a license?

You quoted me and replied with..

Irvine511 said:
he'd also have to be trained to do it which would then make him a doctor -- the person who is licensed to practice a medical procedure. if i sell my friend morphine it's illegal, but if a doctor administers me morphine -- because he is a *trained professional* -- it is legal.

I replied with...

thacraic said:
My question is what would this boy be charged with? Praciticing medicine without a license or feticide?

Then you replied with what I quoted to start this thread.

You failed to answer the initial question posed. Which was what would this guy be charged with. Practicing medicine without a license or feticide?
 
this makes me so sad
I wish the girl wouldve had someone to talk to , some counselor who could have given her some guidence . this act of desperation , how is this girl and the boy going to carry on ??? they are going to be so bewildered and lost in life...
children are truly a blessing..and should be a celebrated thing.

abortion is legal because of people doing stuff like this. im glad it is too. but whats the use when people lose thier minds ?
I can truly understand the desperation of a teenage pregnancy , I was 17 when i had my first child . and the thought did pass my mind that my life would be less complex if i had lost my baby
somehow......that is how I honestly felt....but i stayed healthy and had a healthy baby and so on and so forth.

this just makes me sad ,,,,,,its one step forward two steps back
=* (

where is the intervention.........y aknow...where was theone person who could have done that one thing that made a difference?

there before the grace of God go I
 
Last edited:
paxetaurora said:
Okay, can everyone please keep their tempers in check in this thread?

I don't want to close it (well, okay, maybe I do), but I will if we can't return to having a civil, polite discussion without name-calling and condescension. This goes for BOTH sides.

Well I agree. My temper is definitely flared at the moment. I don't know why I bother participating when I end up being so annoyed when people do not answer direct questions and furthermore take what I say and try to turn into something else.

I guess I should take a break from it?

Take care,

Carrie
 
U2Kitten said:


This 'woman' "CHOSE" to be hit with a baseball bat! And aren't you all for her having a 'choice'? Well you wouldn't want to deny her a choice and be anti choice now would you?

/extreme sarcasm/

People seem to be forgetting she was in on this and wanted it done. It wasn't like he held her down and abused her! She sat there and let him do it! This was her CHOICE! The only victim is the baby!

Also everyone who is screaming that she should have gone to a clinic is forcing THEIR opinion on this girl. Using the baseball bat was her choice, and denying her that choice is no different than telling her she can't get an abortion! See, maybe going to a clinic is right for YOU, but she's not you, and this is what she chose. You cannot force your beilef system on her! It's her choice, her decision about her own body! Her body her choice, isn't that what you believe?

This "woman" you speak of is only 15-16 years old. She was scared, desperate, and extremely stupid. Her choices were limited. No one is forcing their opinion on anyone in here, that makes absolutely no sense. Your 'choice' theory is an absurd one, especially in this case. Choice needs to be within the limits of law otherwise what's the point of legislation?
 
thacraic said:

(Note to BVS and Dread, what Irivine said IS CONDESCENDING, but I really DOUBT either of you two will have ANYTHING to say about it.)

Why am I being called out on this, I think there's been condescention on both sides. Please don't drag me into your other discussions, thank you.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


This "woman" you speak of is only 15-16 years old. She was scared, desperate, and extremely stupid. Her choices were limited. No one is forcing their opinion on anyone in here, that makes absolutely no sense. Your 'choice' theory is an absurd one, especially in this case. Choice needs to be within the limits of law otherwise what's the point of legislation?

I didn't call her a woman, I got that from someone else's post, (that's why I put it in '' marks) I even slipped up and called her girl later. If she were the same age at an abortion clinic you'd respect her opinion, yet you don't accept her choice of a baseball bat? And yes, I am only trying to point out the ignorance, hyypocrisy and lack of holding water of the whole fucking 'choice' argument! (did you miss my /extreme sarcasm/ comment?) See, you people are always going on about how an abortion is a choice, and while you may not agree with it, it is not your decision to make, it's the girl/woman in question. So here this girl has made her choice, and you are against it? Gasp! So you only call it a choice if it's a choice you agree with?
 
Last edited:
indra said:


Anti-choice is EXACTLY what it is though. Pro-abortion, which you seem to prefer, would mean that the person wants every woman to have an abortion, which is generally not the case. So the proper term is pro-choice, since what I advocate is the choice. For instance, you have children -- if I was pro-abortion, I would say that you should have aborted them, and personally, if you want them, that's great, you should have them. I think that you have the right to choose to have your children or the choice not to (and you have made that choice). But that was your decision...your CHOICE.

And if you know damned well that if pro-choice or anti-choice means in terms of abortion, not everything else. Well, maybe you don't, but you should as it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Uh, duh, of course I know that's what you mean, that's why I said it was a 'comfy term to cover up what abortion really is.' If you really support abortion, have the fucking balls to call yourself PRO ABORTION and stop hiding behind the 'choice' bullshit!
 
You know, there are some people in this thread who know they lose their tempers when this subject is brought up, yet persist in posting every single time said subject comes around.

Again, condescension, sarcasm, and name-calling aren't going to help.

This thread improves (or sinks) by this afternoon when I come home again, or I'm totally closing it.
 
As long as no one posts the stupid, ridiculous, hypocritical term 'anti choice' I can hold my temper. But once that shows up, I explode. It's one of my life's goals to point out the ignorance of justifying abortion with the word 'choice' and to get people to fess up and call it what it really is. But you don't have to worry about me anymore, I have some serious personal business the rest of the day and will not be able to get to the computer! Hopefully someone else will flare up and the thread will be closed before I get back :shifty:
 
paxetaurora said:
You know, there are some people in this thread who know they lose their tempers when this subject is brought up, yet persist in posting every single time said subject comes around.

Again, condescension, sarcasm, and name-calling aren't going to help.

This thread improves (or sinks) by this afternoon when I come home again, or I'm totally closing it.

Pax with all due respect, this topic will never be debated without absolute passion from both sides. And it never should be. It's a serious as fuck issue. Why don't you guys let everyone have the debate they want, if people didn't want it they'd not bother responding.

Anyone who gets out of hand can take a temporary hike from here. Sicy or Elvis wouldn't mind, surely.

These threads need to see themselves through to conclusion, or until it becomes useless. And that's a long ways off.

This isn't kindergarden. Newbs will realise that before long, and anyone older here already knows that.

Don't be in a rush to close it, people have a right and need here. Lets NOT silence this issue anymore. Please.

:(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom