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Old 01-07-2005, 09:16 AM   #166
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Well, it seems as though our standards have been set to use abortion as a last resort. I'm sure most people don't exactly like abortions, but quite a few believe they should be done anyhow. I have that feeling about young teens having sex. I wish they would at least wait a while longer, but there's no sense in preaching abstinance, so my standards are limited to using birth control. In summary, I don't like the idea that so many teens are using birth control, but it's better than having more unwanted pregnancies. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:44 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Unfortunately, one has to be put above the other as either the woman is going to suffer the immense emotional trauma of having a child she doesn't want, or a fetus will be killed. Both sides lose so much. One loses a life, and one loses life as she knows it. Which she still does anyway as anyone who has suffered the pain of an abortion will know.

No one wins.
That's one of the best summarizations of this topic I've ever encountered. I like your style, Angela.

Such a mess . . .
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:49 AM   #168
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I second that, it was well-said.

Imagine if this kid experienced any feelings of regret later in life for the baseball bat abortion.
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:34 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Pax with all due respect, this topic will never be debated without absolute passion from both sides. And it never should be. It's a serious as fuck issue. Why don't you guys let everyone have the debate they want, if people didn't want it they'd not bother responding.

Anyone who gets out of hand can take a temporary hike from here. Sicy or Elvis wouldn't mind, surely.

These threads need to see themselves through to conclusion, or until it becomes useless. And that's a long ways off.

This isn't kindergarden. Newbs will realise that before long, and anyone older here already knows that.

Don't be in a rush to close it, people have a right and need here. Lets NOT silence this issue anymore. Please.

Ange, this issue has never been silenced. And you know that my job as a mod--for better or worse--is to try to keep things under control. It is NOT good for me, or any mod, to allow people to conduct discussions in this manner.

It seems that some people would like Interference to be run differently--that is, with less input from mods and more of a "free rein" mentality. Unfortunately, that is not how Interference is run, and I'm glad of that, too. Surely it would make my job, and all our jobs as mods, easier, but I'd like to think that I have a hand in encouraging and upholding standards of civil discourse--instead of merely presiding over a free-for-all.

This is a moot point right now because the thread seems to be going well and I don't plan to close it. But I won't apologize for how this forum, or any other at Interference, is moderated. No one is being "silenced." This is not a tyranny. We all know that these threads re-surface again and again anyway, and we allow them to run their courses as best we can until people start to take it personally and can't stop.

It is what it is.
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:48 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


Uh, duh, of course I know that's what you mean, that's why I said it was a 'comfy term to cover up what abortion really is.' If you really support abortion, have the fucking balls to call yourself PRO ABORTION and stop hiding behind the 'choice' bullshit!
U2kitten, please use your brain here. I'm NOT pro-abortion, I'm "pro-the choice to decide whether or not to continue the pregnancy or to abort the pregnancy" but that being pretty damned long to type out, it is shortened to pro-choice. I don't use it to be more "comfy," I use it to be more clear about what I believe. If you choose not to believe that, that's your right, but I'm very particular about words and their meanings, and your choice of words for what you think I mean actually obscures what I actually mean.

And I don't have balls, and I suspect you don't either (unless your one very odd woman -- and if you are, well, you could probably make decent money in porn ).


*edited to add:

Note to Pax: My resolve to keep out of this didn't last very long, did it? Sorry. But, I can't help it, I'm opinionated! )
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:57 PM   #171
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Originally posted by thacraic



The reason I am pointing you and dread out is because I was accused on another thread by both you and him of being condescending.
Exactly, another thread.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:14 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

1. What should this couple have done differently? Should they have used birth control, practiced abstinence, received better sex education, or did they do everything right?
Use protection, we don't know of their education, but I'd guess it was weak since they got pregnant, but you never know.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

2. Do you agree with the young man being charged and not the young woman? Why or why not?
I think like someone already mentioned that it would be next to impossible to prove her role in the incident.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

3. Has the term "women's rights" been put to good use, or do you think it has been abused?
Well in many ways we're still not equal so I would say it hasn't been abused yet.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:15 PM   #173
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Really? You think women should be the ones to propose to us?
I know of girls that have proposed.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:22 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



well, i suppose this explains a tremendous amount.

the fact that you bring up other threads and drag them into this one is evidence of just how personally you're taking these discussions. i've never called you a homophobe, dear, but i will absolutely call a *belief* homophobic -- Biblically based or not. i know the anger feels good, but your coherence erodes every time you work yourself up into a righteous frenzy.

i don't think it's name calling but stating a fact that you really need to grow up.

i'm totally done with this post.
Irvine you were done before you started. You have yet again failed to even reply to the initial question. All you can do is pick apart a comment I made about this fourm in general. My making a comment on how I see certain people responding to threads in this forum explains what? That I notice a pattern of behavoir with certain people and in each thread, the same thing occurs and I point it out. I point out that my saying your being condescending is not name calling and I furthermore give examples of what name calling is, and that means I need to grow up? I am sorry but I fail to see coherence in that.

Anger feels good? Not really. It annoys me more than it angers me. "It" being when people will not address a question and just skirt it. I suppose it is because they do not have an answer. And yeh, it will be taken personally if, instead of answering a question, the only thing a person does is try in vain to insult me and my intelligence. Not just me either, if I see it happening to anyone I find it incredibly rude and ignorant. And yeh I will point it out. Sorry for being CHILDISH in calling a spade a spade.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:24 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
[B]
I think it's a perversion to compare a woman's right to vote to the fact that almost every third baby conceived in America is killed by abortion. (http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_...em_both_17.asp)
I don't buy it. I don't have time to look for the numbers but 1 out of 3? Please. Out of all the women I've know in my life either very personally or have worked with through my days of working with youth, I've known 2 women who have had abortions. I couldn't count how many have had children. And I didn't grow up in an affluent neighborhood. I question the numbers but who knows I'll get back to you on this.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:27 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Exactly, another thread.
But it is in the same forum with the same people. Evidentally what is ok for some is not ok for others. I guess it depends on who is being condescending and what the subject matter is and what views that person has on it. Got it....
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:34 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic


But it is in the same forum with the same people. Evidentally what is ok for some is not ok for others. I guess it depends on who is being condescending and what the subject matter is and what views that person has on it. Got it....
But bringing grudges from other threads is a no no here. This thread is for this discussion, not for others even in this forum.

And you can be a condescending as anyone here, hell, we all can be (and are at times), so let's not get so worked up about who's allowed what here, and discuss the topic.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:40 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic


But it is in the same forum with the same people. Evidentally what is ok for some is not ok for others. I guess it depends on who is being condescending and what the subject matter is and what views that person has on it. Got it....
First of all bringing in past threads is frown upon by the mods(anyone please correct me if this is wrong but this is how I understood it.) Secondly, yes it was in the past I'm no longer going to have THAT argument. Third as I mentioned before both of you have been condescending to each other so please don't involve me in this.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:06 PM   #179
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Look, things were starting to go well...

Can we please admit that decent, reasonable, ethical people can disagree on this issue, and that likely neither side will have the final word?

(That's right, neither side will have the final word--because at the rate this thread has started to go again, I, or another mod, will have the final word before putting the ol' lock to it.)

Here are some suggestions:

--Acknowledge that the mere fact that someone is personally strongly opposed to abortion does not make him or her a bigoted, reactionary asshole; OR
--Acknowledge that the mere fact that someone feels personally that abortion should remain legal and in the hands of medical professionals does not make him or her a baby-killing, bloodthirsty nihilist; AND
--Leave your sarcasm, your petty put-downs, your condescensions, and your TEMPER at the door.

I mean it. I'm tired of this happening over and over again with this subject. My weekend starts tonight and I'd have no problem putting this to bed so I don't have to worry about it for the next two days.

Neither I nor any other mod will let people act like children in here.

That is all.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:18 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I would really like to get in a discussion that deals with this specific case. Since most of us would agree that using a baseball bat is an awful method for an abortion, I have a few questions and would like to receive some replies, and get different perspectives.

1. What should this couple have done differently? Should they have used birth control, practiced abstinence, received better sex education, or did they do everything right?

2. Do you agree with the young man being charged and not the young woman? Why or why not?

3. Has the term "women's rights" been put to good use, or do you think it has been abused?
I'd rather answer these questions from what we as a society should do, more than what I think this couple should have done, as I don't really know what they did or knew prior to this incidnt. besides, I think the goal should be to prevent this type of thing from happening more.

1) I think sex education must be actively promoted, and I think it needs to be blunt, graphic, and very, very thorough. I've heard many people aghast at students being taught how to apply a condom (or tasting flavored ones...that was the topic of a thread here not so long ago), but I think we need to get over our squeamishness and actually teach kids about sexual activity honestly and openly. We need to get over our idea that sex is dirty and wicked and all that. And that sex education needs to begin at a young age and be continuous -- not just one class in the seventh grade.

Reproductive medical care needs to be accessable, and if needed, free (all medical care should be, but that's another thread) for all. And contraceptives also need to be widely available and at reasonable or no cost, and their use very strongly encouraged. RU 486 and the morning after pills should be widely available (I prefer over the counter) and their use encouraged, in fact I think all women/girls should have at least one dose at home at all times. And I believe abortion must remain safe, legal, and accessible.

2) To be honest I don't really care. I would prefer that neither was charged, but both receive a thorough sex ed course (as outlined above).

3) I'm not quite sure what this is in reference to, but I will say that womens rights have a very long way to go.
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