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Old 01-07-2005, 01:59 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I knew I shouldn't have clicked on Indra's post. Nothing sets my temper off worse than the stupid term 'anti-choice.' That really boils my blood and makes me want to write a diatribe. Both pro and anti choice are worthless labels, because all different people approve or disapprove of different things. Unless you agree or disagree with EVERY choice it's hypocritical. But of course, those 'choice' labels are only cushy little covers for what abortion really is. Shut up with the fucking choice bullshit. It's pro abortion and anti abortion, and if you don't feel comfortable with those labels perhaps you need to reconsider your position. (btw I feel the same way about the terms pro and anti life)
Anti-choice is EXACTLY what it is though. Pro-abortion, which you seem to prefer, would mean that the person wants every woman to have an abortion, which is generally not the case. So the proper term is pro-choice, since what I advocate is the choice. For instance, you have children -- if I was pro-abortion, I would say that you should have aborted them, and personally, if you want them, that's great, you should have them. I think that you have the right to choose to have your children or the choice not to (and you have made that choice). But that was your decision...your CHOICE.

And if you know damned well that if pro-choice or anti-choice means in terms of abortion, not everything else. Well, maybe you don't, but you should as it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:04 AM   #137
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Originally posted by Do Miss America
And you are picking and choosing about the woman's life. Wouldn't you rather see a woman taken care of by a doctor rather than a bat? That is something you aren't answering!
This 'woman' "CHOSE" to be hit with a baseball bat! And aren't you all for her having a 'choice'? Well you wouldn't want to deny her a choice and be anti choice now would you?

/extreme sarcasm/

People seem to be forgetting she was in on this and wanted it done. It wasn't like he held her down and abused her! She sat there and let him do it! This was her CHOICE! The only victim is the baby!

Also everyone who is screaming that she should have gone to a clinic is forcing THEIR opinion on this girl. Using the baseball bat was her choice, and denying her that choice is no different than telling her she can't get an abortion! See, maybe going to a clinic is right for YOU, but she's not you, and this is what she chose. You cannot force your beilef system on her! It's her choice, her decision about her own body! Her body her choice, isn't that what you believe?
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:34 AM   #138
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Originally posted by Irvine511



darling, i was refering to your deliberate use of quotation marks -- the way i read your post, you don't believe that it's a scientific fact that a fetus is not a person. if you do, but are still anti-choice, that's a different matter. and if i read those quotes wrong, then i apologize, but you'd do well to refrain from the name calling as it weakens your arguments even further.

Oh sooooooo sorry I chose not to be subtle and vague in my namecalling. Actually saying you are condescending is not namecalling, it is stating a fact. Pointing out that you are being condescending does not weaken my argument. (Note to BVS and Dread, what Irivine said IS CONDESCENDING, but I really DOUBT either of you two will have ANYTHING to say about it.) HOW does it weaken my argument. I think I need to get something straight here. In this forum it is ok to call people bigots or homophobes because of their belief system (which is twisted to "prove" the lame ass accusations) but saying someone is condescending is out. But no wait, even then its not, it is only when people with certain views say it that it is not acceptable. Gotcha!

I used the quotes BECAUSE science says the life cycle begins at conception yet ironically science also says life begins after the 1st trimester. That is why i referred to it as "scientific fact", because one view is in complete contrast to the other. You do not need to be a scientist to KNOW that. All you need is the ability to read the written word.

Oh an just some words of advice to everyone, if you are not a musician do not attempt to analyze Edge's guitar solos. If you are not a politician do not talk politics. If you are not a pastor do not speak about theology etc. etc. Thank you Irvine for pointing out that if we are not professionals in the area of which we speak, we really shouldn't have an opinion on things.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:43 AM   #139
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Okay, can everyone please keep their tempers in check in this thread?

I don't want to close it (well, okay, maybe I do), but I will if we can't return to having a civil, polite discussion without name-calling and condescension. This goes for BOTH sides.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:52 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


last time i checked, hitting women with a baseball bat isn't a medical procedure.
AH lovely. Another person quoting what I said but leaving out the key element. I asked you what if this boy had done it with the apporiate medical equipment. Changing my words around, being evasive and not answering a direct question is not really an effective means of discourse.

I love how you still failed to answer the question in the context which it was posed. You took one post of mine and made it into something it is not. Let me demonstrate.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
One's legal and one isn't. That is the point here.
My reply to BVS...

Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic
So what if this guy had the proper medical equipment to perform the procedure. Then what would he be charged with? Practicing medicine without a license?
You quoted me and replied with..

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
he'd also have to be trained to do it which would then make him a doctor -- the person who is licensed to practice a medical procedure. if i sell my friend morphine it's illegal, but if a doctor administers me morphine -- because he is a *trained professional* -- it is legal.
I replied with...

Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic
My question is what would this boy be charged with? Praciticing medicine without a license or feticide?
Then you replied with what I quoted to start this thread.

You failed to answer the initial question posed. Which was what would this guy be charged with. Practicing medicine without a license or feticide?
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:56 AM   #141
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this makes me so sad
I wish the girl wouldve had someone to talk to , some counselor who could have given her some guidence . this act of desperation , how is this girl and the boy going to carry on ??? they are going to be so bewildered and lost in life...
children are truly a blessing..and should be a celebrated thing.

abortion is legal because of people doing stuff like this. im glad it is too. but whats the use when people lose thier minds ?
I can truly understand the desperation of a teenage pregnancy , I was 17 when i had my first child . and the thought did pass my mind that my life would be less complex if i had lost my baby
somehow......that is how I honestly felt....but i stayed healthy and had a healthy baby and so on and so forth.

this just makes me sad ,,,,,,its one step forward two steps back
=* (

where is the intervention.........y aknow...where was theone person who could have done that one thing that made a difference?

there before the grace of God go I
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:02 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Okay, can everyone please keep their tempers in check in this thread?

I don't want to close it (well, okay, maybe I do), but I will if we can't return to having a civil, polite discussion without name-calling and condescension. This goes for BOTH sides.
Well I agree. My temper is definitely flared at the moment. I don't know why I bother participating when I end up being so annoyed when people do not answer direct questions and furthermore take what I say and try to turn into something else.

I guess I should take a break from it?

Take care,

Carrie
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:44 AM   #143
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


This 'woman' "CHOSE" to be hit with a baseball bat! And aren't you all for her having a 'choice'? Well you wouldn't want to deny her a choice and be anti choice now would you?

/extreme sarcasm/

People seem to be forgetting she was in on this and wanted it done. It wasn't like he held her down and abused her! She sat there and let him do it! This was her CHOICE! The only victim is the baby!

Also everyone who is screaming that she should have gone to a clinic is forcing THEIR opinion on this girl. Using the baseball bat was her choice, and denying her that choice is no different than telling her she can't get an abortion! See, maybe going to a clinic is right for YOU, but she's not you, and this is what she chose. You cannot force your beilef system on her! It's her choice, her decision about her own body! Her body her choice, isn't that what you believe?
This "woman" you speak of is only 15-16 years old. She was scared, desperate, and extremely stupid. Her choices were limited. No one is forcing their opinion on anyone in here, that makes absolutely no sense. Your 'choice' theory is an absurd one, especially in this case. Choice needs to be within the limits of law otherwise what's the point of legislation?
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:47 AM   #144
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Originally posted by thacraic

(Note to BVS and Dread, what Irivine said IS CONDESCENDING, but I really DOUBT either of you two will have ANYTHING to say about it.)
Why am I being called out on this, I think there's been condescention on both sides. Please don't drag me into your other discussions, thank you.
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:57 AM   #145
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Woah, I just got a headache.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:03 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This "woman" you speak of is only 15-16 years old. She was scared, desperate, and extremely stupid. Her choices were limited. No one is forcing their opinion on anyone in here, that makes absolutely no sense. Your 'choice' theory is an absurd one, especially in this case. Choice needs to be within the limits of law otherwise what's the point of legislation?
I didn't call her a woman, I got that from someone else's post, (that's why I put it in '' marks) I even slipped up and called her girl later. If she were the same age at an abortion clinic you'd respect her opinion, yet you don't accept her choice of a baseball bat? And yes, I am only trying to point out the ignorance, hyypocrisy and lack of holding water of the whole fucking 'choice' argument! (did you miss my /extreme sarcasm/ comment?) See, you people are always going on about how an abortion is a choice, and while you may not agree with it, it is not your decision to make, it's the girl/woman in question. So here this girl has made her choice, and you are against it? Gasp! So you only call it a choice if it's a choice you agree with?
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:05 AM   #147
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Originally posted by indra


Anti-choice is EXACTLY what it is though. Pro-abortion, which you seem to prefer, would mean that the person wants every woman to have an abortion, which is generally not the case. So the proper term is pro-choice, since what I advocate is the choice. For instance, you have children -- if I was pro-abortion, I would say that you should have aborted them, and personally, if you want them, that's great, you should have them. I think that you have the right to choose to have your children or the choice not to (and you have made that choice). But that was your decision...your CHOICE.

And if you know damned well that if pro-choice or anti-choice means in terms of abortion, not everything else. Well, maybe you don't, but you should as it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Uh, duh, of course I know that's what you mean, that's why I said it was a 'comfy term to cover up what abortion really is.' If you really support abortion, have the fucking balls to call yourself PRO ABORTION and stop hiding behind the 'choice' bullshit!
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:05 AM   #148
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You know, there are some people in this thread who know they lose their tempers when this subject is brought up, yet persist in posting every single time said subject comes around.

Again, condescension, sarcasm, and name-calling aren't going to help.

This thread improves (or sinks) by this afternoon when I come home again, or I'm totally closing it.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:08 AM   #149
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As long as no one posts the stupid, ridiculous, hypocritical term 'anti choice' I can hold my temper. But once that shows up, I explode. It's one of my life's goals to point out the ignorance of justifying abortion with the word 'choice' and to get people to fess up and call it what it really is. But you don't have to worry about me anymore, I have some serious personal business the rest of the day and will not be able to get to the computer! Hopefully someone else will flare up and the thread will be closed before I get back
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:14 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
You know, there are some people in this thread who know they lose their tempers when this subject is brought up, yet persist in posting every single time said subject comes around.

Again, condescension, sarcasm, and name-calling aren't going to help.

This thread improves (or sinks) by this afternoon when I come home again, or I'm totally closing it.
Pax with all due respect, this topic will never be debated without absolute passion from both sides. And it never should be. It's a serious as fuck issue. Why don't you guys let everyone have the debate they want, if people didn't want it they'd not bother responding.

Anyone who gets out of hand can take a temporary hike from here. Sicy or Elvis wouldn't mind, surely.

These threads need to see themselves through to conclusion, or until it becomes useless. And that's a long ways off.

This isn't kindergarden. Newbs will realise that before long, and anyone older here already knows that.

Don't be in a rush to close it, people have a right and need here. Lets NOT silence this issue anymore. Please.

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