Baptist Minister Ex-communicates Members For Not Backing Bush - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-11-2005, 11:20 AM   #31
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 05:41 AM
That pastor...is really stupid.

Bush is not equivalent to God, no matter how much he'd like ya to believe that .

No, seriously, though, I agree with Macfistowannabe about this-church is where the focus is to be on whatever god you worship.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:42 PM   #32
The Fly
 
madroseka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft. Lewis, WA
Posts: 71
Local Time: 11:41 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the article say the memebers in question were voted out of the church. That would tell me that its not just a 1 man descion. Also why would you want to go to a church if you don't believe what the rest of the church believes? Don't you think the congregation has a right to say who and who can't worship with them. Second thing that bothers me is the people who were voted out got lawyers, what happened to seperation of church and state? (even though that really doesnt exsist)
__________________

__________________
madroseka is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:45 PM   #33
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
Don't you think the congregation has a right to say who and who can't worship with them.
Legally speaking, maybe. Morally speaking, probably not. Church should be a place where everyone can come and worship.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:46 PM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by pax
Legally speaking, maybe. Morally speaking, probably not. Church should be a place where everyone can come and worship.
I agree.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 04:30 PM   #35
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
Don't you think the congregation has a right to say who and who can't worship with them. Second thing that bothers me is the people who were voted out got lawyers, what happened to seperation of church and state? (even though that really doesnt exsist)
"Separation of church and state" does exist! It's implicit in the First Amendment and consistently upheld in numerous court cases. It exists.

As for the rights of a congregation, sure, they have the right to boot people out. Then they should be ready to start paying taxes, because that violates federal tax-exempt laws.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 04:45 PM   #36
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
Don't you think the congregation has a right to say who and who can't worship with them.
Not a real church, not one that really follows the teachings of God.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-11-2005, 06:17 PM   #37
The Fly
 
madroseka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft. Lewis, WA
Posts: 71
Local Time: 11:41 AM
It may not be the moral thing for these people to do, but does it mean they can't do it? Remember the church teaches anti-abortion and anti-homosexuaity. Is that moral? It may not be but that is a big part of theChristian religion. If you have members of your church, especially a small church, that go directly against the teachings of the faith I think the other members of the church should have a say in who they worship with.

As for the first amendment, its all in the wording. A lot of people can make the argument that it doesn't specfically say that the church and state must be seprate. Basically the way I interpret it it says Congress can't make a law respecting an offical state religion and it can't make any law inhibiting the free exercise of one's choosen religion. I am not a law expert so I'm not going to argue for that point, I'm just paraphraseing what it says
__________________
madroseka is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 06:37 PM   #38
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
Remember the church teaches anti-abortion and anti-homosexuaity.
Not neccesarily.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-11-2005, 08:19 PM   #39
The Fly
 
madroseka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft. Lewis, WA
Posts: 71
Local Time: 11:41 AM
most christian churches that follow the bible do
__________________
madroseka is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 09:17 PM   #40
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
most christian churches that follow the bible do
Correction: most Christian churches that have a conservative / traditional interpretation of the Bible do. Secular Bible scholars just laugh in their face.

With that, I wish that the Episcopal Church would develop a backbone and send the conservatives packing.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 05-11-2005, 09:31 PM   #41
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by madroseka
most christian churches that follow the bible do
There are those churches that preach life but understand abortion is a much more difficult issue and would rather focus on education and how these unwanted pregancies can be solved rather than just flat out preach against abortion.

And there are churches, believe it or not, that have looked deep into the original writings instead of interpretations and don't preach any anti-homosexuality.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-13-2005, 09:14 AM   #42
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 06:41 AM
This is from www.sojo.net. For those who haven't heard, Wallis has a new book "God's Politics" that's getting great reviews.

God's own party?
by Jim Wallis

Several weeks ago, Episcopal priest and former Republican Senator John Danforth began an op-ed in the New York Times by writing: "By a series of recent initiatives, Republicans have transformed our party into the political arm of conservative Christians." And, I would add, some Religious Right leaders are trying to transform the church into the religious arm of conservative Republicans. Either way, these partisan attempts to hijack faith and politics are wrong.

Yet each week brings a new outrage. This week's news was of a Baptist church in North Carolina, where nine members, including three deacons, say they had their membership revoked because they were Democrats who supported John Kerry. According to the Charlotte News-Observer, the nine walked out of a church meeting when Pastor Chan Chandler asked them to sign documents agreeing with his political views. When they left, members remaining voted to terminate their membership.

While the pastor has attributed it to a "misunderstanding," the former members say that last fall he told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Kerry should either leave the church or repent. One, a 75-year-old deacon, told the News-Observer: "He went on and on about how he's going to bring politics up, and if we didn't agree with him we should leave. I think I deserve the right to vote for who I want to." News reports today indicate that Pastor Chandler is resigning.

It's the latest outrage in a continuing pattern. Last year, news stories included Republicans seeking church membership lists and mailing postcards implying Democrats wanted to ban the Bible. Just a few weeks ago, Religious Right speakers held what they billed as "Justice Sunday - Stopping the Filibuster Against People of Faith" in support of President Bush's judicial nominees. Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council was quoted in the New York Times as saying Democrats "have targeted people for reasons of their faith or moral position."

Because many other religious voices spoke to challenge the attempt to make God a partisan, President Bush, to his credit, repudiated the equation of faith with his policies. He was asked at his recent press conference whether he thought filibusters against nominees were "an attack against people of faith." He replied: "I think people are opposing my nominees because they don't like the judicial philosophy of the people I've nominated.... I don't ascribe a person's opposing my nominations to an issue of faith."

Then, on ABC's This Week, George Stephanopoulos asked Pat Robertson about his statement that "the out-of-control judiciary, and this was in your last book Courting Disaster, is the most serious threat America has faced in nearly 400 years of history, more serious than al Qaeda..." Robertson replied: "George, I really believe that. I think they are destroying the fabric that holds our nation together...the gradual erosion of the consensus that's held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings."

This latest news from North Carolina is the logical, inevitable result of the road the Religious Right and some Republicans have taken.

It is the assumption that Christians must accept one partisan political position on issues, or be accused of not being Christian. This is an assumption we must reject. Rather, we must insist on the deep connections between spirituality and politics while defending the proper boundaries between church and state that protect religious and nonreligious minorities and keep us all safe from state-controlled religion. We can demonstrate our commitment to pluralistic democracy and support the rightful separation of church and state without segregating moral and spiritual values from our political life. Abraham Lincoln, in his famous Second Inaugural Address, said of the two sides in the Civil War: "Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other." He would say the same today.

The Republican Party is not God's own party, as the Religious Right and some Republican leaders seem to be suggesting. And, of course, neither is the Democratic Party. We must say it again and again until it is heard and understood: God is not partisan; God is not a Republican or a Democrat. When either party tries to politicize God, or co-opt religious communities for its political agenda, it makes a terrible mistake. God's politics challenge all our politics. Our faith must not be narrowed to the agenda of one political party.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 05-13-2005, 11:55 AM   #43
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
It is the assumption that Christians must accept one partisan political position on issues, or be accused of not being Christian. This is an assumption we must reject. Rather, we must insist on the deep connections between spirituality and politics while defending the proper boundaries between church and state that protect religious and nonreligious minorities and keep us all safe from state-controlled religion. We can demonstrate our commitment to pluralistic democracy and support the rightful separation of church and state without segregating moral and spiritual values from our political life. Abraham Lincoln, in his famous Second Inaugural Address, said of the two sides in the Civil War: "Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other." He would say the same today.

The Republican Party is not God's own party, as the Religious Right and some Republican leaders seem to be suggesting. And, of course, neither is the Democratic Party. We must say it again and again until it is heard and understood: God is not partisan; God is not a Republican or a Democrat. When either party tries to politicize God, or co-opt religious communities for its political agenda, it makes a terrible mistake. God's politics challenge all our politics. Our faith must not be narrowed to the agenda of one political party.
. I think that's one of the best statements regarding religion and politics that I've ever read. Well said, Mr. Wallis-I could not agree more.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com