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Old 11-29-2005, 11:56 AM   #31
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
You will find your answer in Scripture.
Jesus refused to stone an adulterous woman to death, as prescribed by the Old Testament, and was an innocent man Himself subjected to capital punishment.

So not only does Jesus thumb His nose at capital punishment, not only does He reject Biblical authority in this instance, He also manages to be a living example of why capital punishment is flawed.

I certainly found my answers in Scripture.

Melon
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:59 AM   #32
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Originally posted by melon


Jesus refused to stone an adulterous woman to death, as prescribed by the Old Testament, and was an innocent man Himself subjected to capital punishment.

So not only does Jesus thumb His nose at capital punishment, not only does He reject Biblical authority in this instance, He also manages to be a living example of why capital punishment is flawed.

I certainly found my answers in Scripture.

Melon
But he also warned Peter that if he was going to live by the sword, he would die by the sword.

Jesus stops the mob from taking justice into their own hands so they may address their own sin - and then tells the women to sin no more.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:00 PM   #33
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i Biblical discussions between NBC and Melon.

i learn so much.

i really do.
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Old 11-29-2005, 01:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Jesus refused to stone an adulterous woman to death, as prescribed by the Old Testament, and was an innocent man Himself subjected to capital punishment.

So not only does Jesus thumb His nose at capital punishment, not only does He reject Biblical authority in this instance, He also manages to be a living example of why capital punishment is flawed.

I certainly found my answers in Scripture.

Melon
It's a stretch, to say the least, that John 8 is mean to be understood as Jesus' stance on capital punishment. His reaction was more to the fact that the Jewish leaders were trying to trap him at the expense of the woman.

Besides the fact that this section of John 8 is the most likely piece of canonized scripture that never really happened.
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Old 11-29-2005, 01:57 PM   #35
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
You will find your answer in Scripture.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:05 PM   #36
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Originally posted by stammer476
It's a stretch, to say the least, that John 8 is mean to be understood as Jesus' stance on capital punishment. His reaction was more to the fact that the Jewish leaders were trying to trap him at the expense of the woman.

Besides the fact that this section of John 8 is the most likely piece of canonized scripture that never really happened.
Well, you're talking to someone with a heavy interest in secular Biblical scholarship; so, with that, most of the Gospels are thought to be mythical in nature anyway. Fine details were less important than convincing non-believers. Since most of them had strict expectations for what they would expect out of a God, much of the Gospels conforms to those expectations.

The Gospel of Matthew is perfect for analysis, because you can see how Jewish and Gentile Christian sects fought over it.

Melon
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:38 PM   #37
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


But he also warned Peter that if he was going to live by the sword, he would die by the sword.

Well that kind of makes sense. One who lives the life of a gang banger will probably die living that lifestyle.

To me it doesn't really say anything about capital punishment.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:35 AM   #38
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On the issue of capital punishment I just can't reconcile the fact that if Jesus told his followers to love one another as they do themselves, how could anyone consider killing someone who could be brought to justice by other means a loving action? I dont think its possible.
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:21 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon




So not only does Jesus thumb His nose at capital punishment,
, He also manages to be a living example of why capital punishment is flawed.

Melon
he was guilty of sedition
so, by law - justly executed

the internment may have been flawed
cremation may have been a better way to go.
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:51 AM   #40
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar





To me it doesn't really say anything about capital punishment.
come on
the choice is yours


don't you want to live in fear

God 'smote" people
God is vengeful
God gets angry
God destroyed cities and all inhabitants-


find some "righteous anger"
be afraid or perish


do not choose love
unless you reject God trademark
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:15 AM   #41
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The New Testament does not have any specific teachings about capital punishment. However, the Old Testament ideas of punishment became secondary to Jesus' message of love and redemption. Both reward and punishment are seen as properly taking place in eternity, rather than in this life.

Jesus said His mission was not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17-20). However, He and His apostles greatly modified our understanding of God's intentions. Love is the principle that must guide all our actions (Matthew 5:43-48, 22:34-40, Mark 12:28-34, Luke 10:25-28, Romans 13:9-10, Galatians 5:14). Christians are bound by Jesus' commands to "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." We are no longer bound by the harsh Old Testament Law (John 1:16-17, Romans 8:1-3, 1 Corinthians 9:20-21).

Jesus flatly rejected the Old Testament principle of taking equal revenge for a wrong done (Matthew 5:38-41, Luke 9:52-56). He also said that we are all sinners and do not have the right to pass judgment on one another (Matthew 7:1-5). In the case of a woman caught in adultery (a capital offense), Jesus said to those who wanted to stone her to death,

"Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, sir." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again." (NRSV, John 8:7-11)

The apostle Paul also warned against taking revenge for a wrong done (Romans 12:17-21, 1 Thessalonians 5:15). Likewise, the apostle Peter warned us not to repay evil with evil (1 Peter 3:9).
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:26 PM   #42
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Gospel of Judas

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The move to publish the alleged Gospel of Judas for the first time in English, German and French. Though not written by Judas, it is said to reflect the belief among early Christians — now gaining ground in the Vatican — that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission, which led to the arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus and hence to man’s salvation.

Mgr Brandmuller said that he expected “no new historical evidence” from the supposed gospel, which had been excluded from the canon of accepted Scripture.

But it could “serve to reconstruct the events and context of Christ’s teachings as they were seen by the early Christians”. This included that Jesus had always preached “forgiveness for one’s enemies”.

Some Vatican scholars have expressed concern over the reconsideration of Judas. Monsignor Giovanni D’Ercole, a Vatican theologian, said it was “dangerous to re-evaulate Judas and muddy the Gospel accounts by reference to apocryphal writings. This can only create confusion in believers.” The Gospels tell how Judas later returned the 30 pieces of silver — his “blood money” — and h anged himself, or according to the Acts of the Apostles, “fell headlong and burst open so that all his entrails burst out”.

Some accounts suggest he acted out of disappointment that Jesus was not a revolutionary who intended to overthrow Roman occupation and establish “God’s Kingdom on Earth”.

In the Gospel accounts, Jesus reveals to the disciples at the Last Supper that one of them will betray him, but does not say which. He adds “Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

But he also — according to St Matthew — acknowledged that Judas had a divine function to fulfil, saying to him during the arrest, “Friend, do what you are here to do” and adding that “the prophecies of the Scriptures must be fulfilled”.

The “Gospel of Judas”, a 62-page worn and tattered papyrus, was found in Egypt half a century ago and later sold by antiquities dealers to the Maecenas Foundation in Basle, Switzerland.
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:49 PM   #43
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Why not publish the Gospel of Deep?

Can't we all re-invent Scripture? We can make ourselves equal to God!!!
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:17 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Why not publish the Gospel of Deep?

Can't we all re-invent Scripture? We can make ourselves equal to God!!!
Maybe all of these so-called "lost books of the Bible" are nothing more than early fan fiction?
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Old 01-12-2006, 10:01 PM   #45
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that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission, which led to the arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus and hence to man’s salvation.
I have no trouble believing this. If Jesus in fact was a son of God, which I believe he was, then everything about his mission here was absolute perfection, including the betrayal, the cucifixion, and any "mistakes" he made along the way. But then again, I believe in the perfection of this imperfect world anyway (and am not a Christian).
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