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Old 04-17-2008, 06:04 PM   #16
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In such a surrounding you hear shots from almost everywhere.

I'm still torn between believing it was really some extremely "lucky shots" (don't kill me here, but I can't think of another term for that) or that it indeed was a huge cover-up conspiracy.
I've once seen another documentation where they took many of the popular theories and tested them, e.g. all three shots (Were three shots possible, could he have hit three times in that time span, the magic bullet phenomenon, the sound thing etc.) and could disprove all these arguments quite comprehensibly.
And I think what DaveC says, that so many people that would have to be involved or at least known something, can't keep quiet for so long, is a very relevant argument. It's also often used in case of the 9/11 conspiracy theories, where everyone agrees that couldn't be possible. I think similar would be the case here.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:07 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
Very informative. Thanks. But I still cannot see Oswald as a lone gunman. You'd have to be the worlds best sniper to pull it off alone. And don't forget the witnesses that swear they heard shots from the grassy knoll.
Well, I guess you solved it then.

Harry - I suggest you read up some. Basic Military markmanship in boot camp trains soldiers to take aim with their breathing in an up and down motion to make the shots easy. This was the shot Oswald had.

From the angle of the snipers nest he was virtually shooting at a stationary target. No marksman wants to be on the right side of the target moving from right to left with the target to make the shot. If your target is moving away from you the up down motion for anyone attempting a shot is much easier than swaying from left to right. You are also forgetting that OSWALD had a scope on the rifle.

1. Virgil Hoffman and Jean Hill waited twenty years to come forward and claim they saw someone behind the picket fence. They waited TWENTY YEARS. Nobody else ever testified that they ssaw someone behind the fence - not now - not ever.

Lee Bowers was 120 Yards away from the picket fence and testifies that he had a view of the entire area. His testimony was that there was NOBODY there. He had the direct view of the only exit area from the parking lot behind the fence - he saw NOBODY leave the parking lot.

Dallas Sherrif Eugene Boone who arrived in the parking lot testified that he searched the parking lot and the area behind the fence. He is on record that the flower beds immediately behind the picket fence were untouched - no footprints in the flowerbed and that there was no way anyone could have fired a weapon from the flowerbed without leaving a trace.

There were numberout witnesses who were on the railroad overpass that had DIRECT line of sight with the graddy knoll and the parking lot. The witnesses - every single one of them testified that there was NOBODY in the parking lot behind the fence.

The police officer stationed in the rail yards with a view of the entire parking lot behind the knoll - did not see anhyone in the parking for over an hour before the assasination.

No rifle, cartridge ect was found behind the fence.

2. The Dr.'s all testify from the presidents autopsy that there was no evidence of wounds to the presidents head from the front or the right side. Xrays support the Dr.'s conclusions that the bullet to the presidents head came from behind.

3. If the president were shot from the right side, the bullet would be traveling into the left side of the brain. The bullet fragments found in the presidential limo were all found in the limosene in front of the President. This would indicate that the shot came from behind, not the side. There are no fragments found to the presidents left, nor was Jackie hit with any bullet fragments.

4. Why would a sniper position himself in an area that was within peoples line of sight?
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
In such a surrounding you hear shots from almost everywhere.

I'm still torn between believing it was really some extremely "lucky shots" (don't kill me here, but I can't think of another term for that) or that it indeed was a huge cover-up conspiracy.
I've once seen another documentation where they took many of the popular theories and tested them, e.g. all three shots (Were three shots possible, could he have hit three times in that time span, the magic bullet phenomenon, the sound thing etc.) and could disprove all these arguments quite comprehensibly.
And I think what DaveC says, that so many people that would have to be involved or at least known something, can't keep quiet for so long, is a very relevant argument. It's also often used in case of the 9/11 conspiracy theories, where everyone agrees that couldn't be possible. I think similar would be the case here.
The "magic bullet" is now more and more being proven to be true.l

Three shots were possible. The vehicle slowed down to almost a stop when the head shot took place.


The sound recordings of the assasination have now been proven that the shots did not come from the book depository.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Basic Military markmanship in boot camp trains soldiers to take aim with their breathing in an up and down motion to make the shots easy. This was the shot Oswald had.
I wouldn't challenge any of that, but wasn't there evidence that he was a very poor marksman during his training?
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:32 PM   #20
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One other thing -

The shots that hit Kennedy if fired from the Book depository were 59 and 88 yards away.

THe shortest distance any soldier has to shoot from to qualify with a weapon is 100 yards. The longest distance is 500 yards.

The shot was not one an expert marksman had to take.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:44 PM   #21
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Dreadox what's your take on the release of info from Irish government records with regard to the death threats that were made against Kennedy while in Ireland during 1963?
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:46 PM   #22
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Dreadox what's your take on the release of info from Irish government records with regard to the death threats that were made against Kennedy while in Ireland during 1963?
I need to read up on it. I am a little out of touch right now with the school year in full force.

I just read your article. I am pretty sure there were similar type threats when he visited Chicago.

Not much to say without more research than your article.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Do you have a link for me?
Here is one link. There was definitely also an article in the Irish Times in Winter 2006 but I think you have to pay to read their back articles.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_n17092126
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:52 PM   #24
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See above:O)
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:54 PM   #25
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It is interesting that Badge Man only appears in Moorman's photograph. Other photographs taken at apporximately the same time from other angles show a Coke Bottle on the fence.

Haha!!!!

And Dick Cheney's fishing pole looks like a naked lady in his glasses.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:04 PM   #26
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Originally posted by financeguy


I wouldn't challenge any of that, but wasn't there evidence that he was a very poor marksman during his training?
Why thank you for bringing this up.

If we look at the distances mentioned above - he was not making a difficult shot. It was closer than the shortest qualification shot for the military.

Oswald qualified as a sharpshooter in the Marines. There is evidence of analysis of his shooting at pop up targets that Oswald was apparently more accurate the faster he had to fire at the targets. On slow fire his accuracy was 76% and on rapid fire his accuracy was 91%. This may explain why his first shot missed.
This phenomenon is explained by marksmen as coming from establishing a rythm. Maybe this is why the second and third shots hit the President.

Oswalds marine qualifications required him to shoot at targets 200, 300, and 500 yards.

Kennedy was basically a stationary target due to the angle, slope of the road, and the fact that he was moving in a direct line away from the target, the shot was EASY.

It is also most likely Oswald did not use the scope but the iron sights on the weapon.

The reason I believe he used the iron sights is it would have been more difficult for him to re aquire his target with the scope as the target was so close.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Why thank you for bringing this up.

If we look at the distances mentioned above - he was not making a difficult shot. It was closer than the shortest qualification shot for the military.

Oswald qualified as a sharpshooter in the Marines. There is evidence of analysis of his shooting at pop up targets that Oswald was apparently more accurate the faster he had to fire at the targets. On slow fire his accuracy was 76% and on rapid fire his accuracy was 91%. This may explain why his first shot missed.
This phenomenon is explained by marksmen as coming from establishing a rythm. Maybe this is why the second and third shots hit the President.

Oswalds marine qualifications required him to shoot at targets 200, 300, and 500 yards.

Kennedy was basically a stationary target due to the angle, slope of the road, and the fact that he was moving in a direct line away from the target, the shot was EASY.

It is also most likely Oswald did not use the scope but the iron sights on the weapon.

The reason I believe he used the iron sights is it would have been more difficult for him to re aquire his target with the scope as the target was so close.
Do you have any references, as this conflicts entirely with anything else I have read on the subject of Oswald's marksmanship.

Also..what was his motive?

And why did he describe himself as a patsy?
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:23 PM   #28
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I would say that Posner's Case Closed and Vincent Bugliosi's Reclaiming History have plenty of evidence about Oswald's shooting abilities.

Motive - Good question - Why did he attempt to kill Edwin Walker? What was his motive there?

When I thought as you did, that he was a terrible shot, I wondered if he was trying to kill Governor Connely, who had changed his discharge from the marines to dishonorable when he was Secretary of Defense? Or was it Navy?

Why would he have killed the police officer if he was not trying to escape? Why would he have changed his pattern and visited his wife the night before the assasination? Why would he leave his wedding ring and money for his family the night before? The night before the assassination was the ONLY time he ever visited her unannounced. It was not the only time he left behind things for his family, he did act similarly the night he attempted to kill Edwin Walker.

Another misconception is that nobody has been able to duplicate the number of shots. All eleven marksmen contracted by the FBI were able to fire the three shots faster than was required by Oswald. They were all firing at a moving target of eleven miles per hour.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:40 PM   #29
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Motive - The question in my mind is this - Was Oswald working for our governement? Was Oswald a disillusioned Marxist, who found no satisfaction in Russia only to put his hopes on Cuba? Was he working for Cuba?

Why had he attempted to infiltrate anti-Castro Organizations when he lived in New Orleans? Organizations that were supplied and sponsored by the US Governmment.....Was he angry when he was not granted permission by the soviet governement to travel to Cuba in the weeks prior to the assassination?
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:23 PM   #30
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Dreadsox has pretty much blown this "Badge Man" bunko out of the water.
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