Australia and racism

[vivaSA]

I hope Bono is going to prepare a good lecture for Aussies when U2 get there in March.
It's unbeliveable what's going on there.

HOW LONG, HOW LONG MUST WE SING THIS SONG?!?

 

[A_Wanderer]

I love the way that this is all projected around the world as an exclusively racist event, I think that I am beginning to understand how most of the rest of the world feels when only one side of an event is covered without context

 

[Kieran McConville]

For once I am going to sort of agree with AW. Well, not agree exactly, but can I just say here and now that while we have our problems by the plenty, Sydney is one small part of this country. Sydney is Australia in the same way that New York is America... ie. not really that much.

 

[financeguy]

I love the way that this is all projected around the world as an exclusively racist event, I think that I am beginning to understand how most of the rest of the world feels when only one side of an event is covered without context

Is that a bit like when Fox news presents the Palestinians as terrorists and the Israelis as always in the right?

 

[Calluna]

Forgive me for expounding further on the situation in a country that is not my own. I'm not Australian, I've only visited there a few times but the last time I was there, a big deal was being made (and rightfully so) out of the accidental deportation case of Vivian Alvarez.

For those not familiar with the case, Vivian is an Australian citizen of Phillipine descent who was involved in a car accident in New South Wales. She did not have her passport with her at the time and she did not speak proper English. She was also probably in shock from the accident.

The authorities assumed that she was in the country illegally and they deported her back to the Phillipines. I believe several years passed and her family was unable to locate her. They asked the Australian government and they said they had absolutely no idea where she ended up.

In the end, it was a priest in the Phillipines who was watching the news and recognized her photo and phoned Australia to tell them where she was. She was still at the exact same convent that she had been originally dumped off at by the Australian government several years before.

The point of all this is that there still seems to be a conception, even among some members of the government and law enforcement agencies that if a person has brown skin and doesn't speak proper English, they must be in the country illegally. There is no way any of that would have happened to the poor woman if she was a white person.

This is just my take on the incident. I apologize in advance if I got some of it wrong. I am always interested in hearing the Australian point of view as well.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Define 'Sydney', VivaSA.


Do you mean the south west where the highest population concentration exists of Lebanese muslim immigrants? Or are you referring, like most Sydney folk are, in surprise that these riots occurred in Cronulla of all places? I'm not saying Cronulla is incapable of trouble or void of immigrant and race issues. This is Australia afterall. Our last full blood Aboriginal died a while back. We're all immigrants. But Cronulla is Shire Scum, not like the boonies of Auburn (known locally as Auburnon or Little Beirut) and it's surrounds or Campbelltown/Cabramatta/Bankstown etc.
But really. I cant be bothered writing all this because it is either known or not known. And I'm guessing assumptions are being made around the world on the 'not known' but in the name of righteous agitation at racial violence, we all stand up and declare this [insert banner worthy name here]. So shake your fists, there's a cause waiting to happen and we can only pray that Saint Bono comes and rescues this godforsaken country from the pits of hell we are doomed.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Well obviously it wouldnt happen to a white person if she spoke english. BUT i raise you on that and point out the story of an australian woman who has mental issues who was found wandering the streets and was only speaking a bit of german, the police put her in a detention centre for months until it was found out she was actually an australian who had gone missing and they believed her dead, while the police and the government thought she was some german backpacker overstaying her welcome and locked her up.

This WASNT a racist event, it was a heated fight between two groups of men who were drunk stupid and looking for a fight. You obviously dont get our news channels but two of the biggest factions living in that area, the 'bra boys' and some muslim group met up together and talked about peace and friendship and mutal respect...

I love how australia has one little rioty fight and the whole world starts pointing the finger at us like were a bunch of white supremicists closing our borders. We're not France y''know. Most of us love our multicultural side, and embrace new cultures into our mix. I basically think the anger comes from Australians (including migrant families) who have come over here to make a decent living embrace the Australain culture and language while still maintaining their roots, get frustrated when other immigrants come here and seem unwilling to fit into society, to not learn to speak english to stay purely within their own communitys. Part of this i believe in their shyness, and how hard it is to learn a language and get accumstomed to a whole new country, they feel safe and protected with people from their own countires and we need to give them time...

but yah, we may have some issues like every country, but a deeply recist country we are NOT.

 

[wang_chung]

I am an Australian, and can understand both points of view on the 'race riots' (the Alvarez scandal was a stupid case of lazy government departments, she didnt deserve her treatment. I empathise with her and think that she deserves the care she is getting now.

The 'race riots' are not a new phenomena to Australia and even the world. The problems in France earlier this year highlight this fact. Even in Australia, the redfern riots and to a lesser extent the macquarie fields riots highlight that this is nothing new. But, people are shocked because they are being fought not in one suburb, but across many suburbs, especially the more peaceful ones. The fact that this action is not isolated makes it an interesting a poignant occurence. It is reportedly spreading to other Australian states.

The fundamental question is wether Australia is racist. This is hard to answer. The racism in Australia is less blatant and obvious. It is quiet jokes between mates etc. But, it could be said that Australia is no more or less racist than other nations.

The riots were instigated by the bashing of two lifeguards on a well known beach, by supposed middle easterners. The reaction that followed from white australia was a disgrace. Idiots who got pissed formed mobs and did disgraceful deeds, indiscriminantly bashing people because they looked foreign. As a so called 'white' australian i was shocked and appalled, as were the majority of my fellow citizens. A minority bunch of drunk and racist idiots spoiled everything. The police should have been left to do their work.

As for the reaction, it to was disgraceful. It was mere revenge. We live in a multi cultural society in Australia, and people have to start to look past what differentiates us and start to look at the obvious truth that we are all Aussies. Regardless or race, religion or creed. There are underlying problems in this nation to do with multiculturalism that i will not go into, but we, as one nation, must meet each other part way for the future.

This is one country, everyones country. Its not 'their's' or 'ours', but everyones. We each have a right to a fair and peaceful life, without fear.

That is my two cents

 

[Calluna]

Well obviously it wouldnt happen to a white person if she spoke english. BUT i raise you on that and point out the story of an australian woman who has mental issues who was found wandering the streets and was only speaking a bit of german, the police put her in a detention centre for months until it was found out she was actually an australian who had gone missing and they believed her dead, while the police and the government thought she was some german backpacker overstaying her welcome and locked her up.

Good point, I remember hearing about that case too.

 

[VertigoGal]

It doesn't seem like most of you are, but you Aussies shouldn't beat yourselves up over this. I mean, some white mobs and some non-white mobs got drunk and made a big scene. It happens. Not to say that any existing racial tensions shouldn't be discussed, but I think most of the reporting we've seen on it (at least the limited amount we've gotten in the US) has been sort of biased, making it look like some massive unprovoked white supremacist uprising or something.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I cant be bothered writing all this because it is either known or not known.

I agree. If a guy from Sydney gets off a plane today, after spending a month in the Amazon with no access to media or communications and asked "Whats in the news?" and was simply told "Some Shire boys and some Bankstown boys have been rioting and brawling and it's gotten waaaaay out of control" his reaction would most likely be "Oh."

Sydney is a fractured city in many ways. I bet I could get those Cronulla boys into a riot over The Shire vs The North Shore (twopredominantly white, middle class dominant areas) or something. There are obviously serious issues there, of race, of crime, of the media and governments role in deliberately fuelling the situation, but mostly for those here in Sydney who know the whole city well, know that it is mostly a clash of tribes rather than a clash of races, albeit one that has now spread into something far more serious. What I mean is "Shire Boys" and "Bankstown Boys" doesn't actually have to be about race for it to spark should there be friction. Watching fans of opposing football teams get in a fight would be a good example. Two guys belting the lights out of each other because they are drunk and fuelled up on anger and testosterone that comes from god knows where, and what is their excuse? You are dressed in the colours of THAT team, and I am dressed in the colours of THIS team. They've gone dumbarse caveman drunken tribal. Am I making sense? I'm not denying that there are serious underlying issues in this massive, massive, diverse city. Of course there are. As there are in any city of this size and cultural/social/economic mix. I'm not suggesting that they are not to be found in this issue, and in a big way (and in a way that has grown during the week). I'm also not suggesting that the washup and debate isn't a good thing. I'm just saying that there is another way to look at it outside of 'race war' and all the other media hype. People in Sydney are mostly simply looking at it in a different way, and outside the hysterical media, it's more one of pure disappointment and disgust at a bunch of out of control male fuckwits between the ages of 16 and 25, on BOTH sides, rather than some big vexing issue of "Why!!!???!!!"

 

[AchtungBono]

Is that a bit like when Fox news presents the Palestinians as terrorists and the Israelis as always in the right?

Ooooh Finance, that was a hit below the belt......

Unlike the other channel that I can't even mention (rhymes with Tea-Pen-Pen), FOX news is the ONLY unbiased news channel on the air. They aren't in anybody's pocket and they bash us PLENTY when we deserve it.

How else would you describe the Palestinians who shoot off morter shells and blow themselves up in malls and bus stations....
CIVILLIANS? Freedom fighters? Santa Claus?........what?

 

[financeguy]

How else would you describe the Palestinians who shoot off morter shells and blow themselves up in malls and bus stations....
CIVILLIANS? Freedom fighters? Santa Claus?........what?

You misunderstand me. I didn't say suicide bombers weren't terrorists, I was merely questioning what I would see as a one sided approach to the conflict that is presented on, for example, Fox (at least on the occasions I've watched it.)

 

[Calluna]

FOX news is the ONLY unbiased news channel on the air.

Um....what???? You lost me right there.

 

[indra]

FOX news is the ONLY unbiased news channel on the air. They aren't in anybody's pocket

FOX unbiased?

 

[BonosSaint]

Like indra said--or laughed

 

[Halifax]

FOX news is the ONLY unbiased news channel on the air.

 

[deep]

please
this person has difficulties

can not even say C N N

 

[AchtungU2aus]

I wish I could renounce my Australian citizenship. I'm ashamed to be Australian. If I didn't 'need' it for my HECS, I'd take out my citizenship, shit on it, burn it then piss on the ashes. Any country with a political leader who doesn't know how to say Sorry, address the issues of racism and suck George Bush's balls should be shot.

Having a bad day.

 

[timothius]

I wish I could renounce my Australian citizenship. I'm ashamed to be Australian. If I didn't 'need' it for my HECS, I'd take out my citizenship, shit on it, burn it then piss on the ashes. Any country with a political leader who doesn't know how to say Sorry, address the issues of racism and suck George Bush's balls should be shot.

Having a bad day.

What they said.

Australians as a whole aren't as racist as what these riots suggest, but they are a lot more racist than what they think.

 

[A_Wanderer]

How do you shoot a country?

With logic like that it's like walking through a compulsory collectivism rally.

I cannot speak for others but I went to a school that had a lot of Chinese (1st generation and exchange students), Greeks (2nd + 3rd Generation) and a few Turks, Iranians, Indians and Pakistanis. Pretty much all middle class with the same general backgrounds and it worked just fine. In addition the whole syllabus was entrenched with the so-called "black armband" view of Australian history, eh it gave me a piss easy positions to be in the contrarian position in debates.

Decrying Australian Racism is always coming from the same damn sources who have been bitching for years - only now they have an example that is less than 60 years old.

Racism between mates = alright because its all in good fun.
Racism against strangers = not alright

Its my rule and im sticking too it

 

[intedomine]

For once I am going to sort of agree with AW. Well, not agree exactly, but can I just say here and now that while we have our problems by the plenty, Sydney is one small part of this country. Sydney is Australia in the same way that New York is America... ie. not really that much.

The term Australia is an insult to us Melburnians, as it means we are classified under the same banner as Sydneysiders, which is a nasty thought because we are nothing like each other...

 

[A_Wanderer]

I'll say, elitist snobs is what Melbournians are, and they say things like bathers instead of swimmers, what the hell?

And the weather is totally schitzo and you have to drive two hours to get to a decent beach.

 

[intedomine]

I'll say, elitist snobs is what Melbournians are, and they say things like bathers instead of swimmers, what the hell?

And the weather is totally schitzo and you have to drive two hours to get to a decent beach.

If you don't like it, leave. No one is forcing you to be here. Go to Sydney with all their b-grade sporting events and ridiculously expensive shops.

And the beach is only a mere 5 minute walk for many people, and what gorgeous natural beaches they are.

The elitist snobs, my friend, only reside in the inner-eastern suburbs, close to all the Pr(ar)vate schools...

 

[timothius]

Racism between mates = alright because its all in good fun.
Racism against strangers = not alright

They aren't mutually exclusive and they flow into one another. Part of the reason why this blew up was because this was an issue that many people in the area (city, state and country) had been racist "in good fun" about between mates for years, but when push comes to shove years of harmless fun turned into somthing they were acutally willing to stand up for (in a rather inebriated state I might add).

I'm of the belief if you practice racisim (or sexisim or homophobia for that matter) "in good fun" for long enough, before you know it, it will translate to an actual belief. And that is where I see the problem sitting at the momement for a lot of Australians...

 

[A_Wanderer]

Oh please, when were driving round to a mates place the one complaining about the "bloody asian drivers" is the Chinese bloke, and we can joke around a bit over it as well because there is no ill intent,. Same goes for my Greek, Croat and Indian mates - we can all give eachother shit but it's in jest between friends, there is no ill-intent - that is functional multiculturalism. Thats different than a group of white guys and a group of Lebanese or Viet blokes hanging out getting ready for trouble, the underlying attitudes are entirely different.

Is greeting a mate with an enthused "You [euphimism for ethnic group] Bastard" really that bad? Or making fun of the hardcore wog attitudes? It's all fine between mates, it is not a monoethnic group attacking others so I don't see the issue.

And sexism and homophobia, comeon - attitudes are attitudes, I think that there is a certain threshold for these things that is altered when a group of men get together, it's not a good thing, but it's definitely a social phenomena.

 

[A_Wanderer]

And the beach is only a mere 5 minute walk for many people, and what gorgeous natural beaches they are.

Anything in that bay is

Now open water, big waves and long sandy shores - thats a beach.

 

[timothius]

Oh please, when were driving round to a mates place the one complaining about the "bloody asian drivers" is the Chinese bloke, and we can joke around a bit over it as well because there is no ill intent,. Same goes for my Greek, Croat and Indian mates - we can all give eachother shit but it's in jest between friends, there is no ill-intent - that is functional multiculturalism. Thats different than a group of white guys and a group of Lebanese or Viet blokes hanging out getting ready for trouble, the underlying attitudes are entirely different.

I misinterpreted what you meant by between mates. I thought you meant making actual racist comments privately between friends rather than merely joking around with stereotypes directed at an mate.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Go to Sydney with all their b-grade sporting events and ridiculously expensive shops.

Beaches? Melbourne??? Okay, okay, so you have a car race we've never wanted, and discount shops. That's excellent.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/07/12/australia.bestcity/



Let's all just be thankful we don't live in Brisbane.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Sexism and homophobia though, that definitely raises a decent point, there is a different thresholds in different company.