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Old 05-05-2005, 05:45 AM   #16
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i didnt say all of the 9 deserve a firing squad. I said the 4 that were found with the herorin strapped to their bodies deserve whatever punishment the indonesian government gives them, because they are undoubtably guilty.

I think the other 5 shouldn't be killed, or even have life in prison.

But what i think is the bigger picture, is that once these drugs are in the country, how many more lives will be torn a part by drug users who use heroin. I'm not saying they are innocent, but if we didn't have idiotic people trafficing drugs into our coutry, maybe we could combat drug pushing once and for all...

and im not being blase about someone's life, if you read my post, i said i was against the death penalty, but then i wouldnt traffic drugs from a place where it is clearly stated EVERYWHERE that if you traffic drugs you will die.
its a simple as that.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:26 PM   #17
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Proven guilty? How exactly is this, when there was NO evidence at all, of her involvement in this smuggling? Something stinks in the Indo legal system where the Bali bombing mastermind Abu Bakar Bashir gets 4.5 days per victim, or 2 and a half years, and she gets 20 bloody years for something no one can prove otherwise she had any hand in. And now dickface Downer is changing his tune on a prisoner exchange, where previously he had said it wouldn't be likely.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=australia
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:29 PM   #18
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The concept of sovereignty is important in diplomacy, one does not get cooperation by making demands.

There was evidence; there were drugs, they were in her bag and her defence could not substantiate how they got in there ~ it may be a crappy legal system but it is something that unfortunately does exist and cannot be interfered with directly without concequence.

Downer is doing the right thing, it would be wrong to make promises about prisoner exchange (a big issue with a lot of other factors) that cannot be kept.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:32 PM   #19
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Is the Indonesian legal system an "innocent until proven guilty" type or "guilty until proven innocent" type? I could be wrong but it may be the later.

20 years is rather a long time for the nature of the "crime".
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:37 PM   #20
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There's not a great deal of diplomacy between us and Indonesia. Never will be, when we prefer to take the meek approach and just accept their terms, regardless of how fair they are.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:40 PM   #21
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Diplomacy is not about getting along, it is a working relationship.

We do not always take the meek approach, we got involved in East Timor to make sure that Indonesia got out(after our betrayal of them under Whitlam). We pushed during the political crisis at the end of the Suharto years and we make our position regarding Indonesia's track record on Islamist groups quite clear.

This is an issue of sovereignty, the Australian government is in no position to make any demands over the Indonesian judicial system, requests however are legitimate.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:40 PM   #22
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I think its a bit more complicated than that, Angie. Do you remember the time the Australian government chucked a wobbly about something and the Indonesian government decided all Australians needed a visa to enter Indonesia effective immediately. The people who were already on planes headed out to Bali landed at Denpasar and had to come all the way back.

Diplomacy is difficult but its really the only way.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:52 PM   #23
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I'm not arguing that diplomacy doesn't work or should never be attempted.
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Old 05-27-2005, 12:59 AM   #24
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Oops, sorry if I sounded a bit narky in my last post, Angie. (especially the first sentence).
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Old 05-27-2005, 04:27 AM   #25
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Here's an idea.

Get all the Aussies who want Schapelle to be free and the 16 million of us can all go to Indonesia and free her from the hands of those "kidnappers".

C'mon someone has got to do something. 20 years for nothing is a disgrace.....I'm still doubtin she's even guilty of such a petty act.

What next? A 5 year old boy on holiday with his family is jailed for life for stealing a bag of lollies?

C'mon world let's boycott all things Indonesian. I'm fed up with the nation (not necessarily the people), and the crap corrupt mess that Indonesia is.
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:25 AM   #26
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Can someone please answer me this question:

What is it the the Bali bombers, who killed hundreds of innocent tourists in a bomb attack, are either released free or given four years, while Schapelle Corby is given 20 years for supossedly bringing in marijuana?

Let me just say that I am truly disgusted, appalled and generally outraged at the verdict. Personally, I firmly believe she is innocent, but whether you think she is guilty or not, rotting away in a prison for 20 years for a bag a marijuana is an immense injustice when terrorists who killed hundreds of innocent people are given a slap on the wrist.

Justice is truly blind with Schapelle Corby.
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:28 AM   #27
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Frankly I don't really give a piss about Shapelle, this is the "Dianification" of Australia whereby things get blown out of all proportion while others are ignored totally. One woman who had a weak defence that did not stand up to scrutiny is found guilty, she is sentenced to 20 years under Indonesian laws, but since she is white and young she gets the most sympathetic media coverage. She has right of appeal, a prisoner exchange program may be established in due time.

Trafficking drugs is not nothing in Indonesia, there are plenty of cases where Australians have been involved in the drug trade in SE Asia and in light of the inability of the defence to prove that the drugs were not hers or break down the procecutions case it is not unexpected.

All this talk of boycotts and not contributing in disasters is a load of crap, taking punitive action because of the process in the Indonesian judicial system (which I may add convicted the Bali bombers to death) seems haphazard.

How would Australians feel if an Indonesian was caught with drugs in their baggage entering Australia, was tried and convicted and then the Indonesian government and people were to demand that the verdict be overturned or the prisoner released?
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:29 AM   #28
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So Schapelle got 20 years in an indonesian jail, you get less for murder here in Australia, unfortunetly.
I've never been to Bali and after this I will never go.
People I know who have been to Bali have said they got offered
drugs all the time over their. They don't seem to worry about their
own people selling drugs to tourists.
Boycott Bali, go to Phukett instead, they need the tourists there.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:21 AM   #29
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this still seems unbalanced to me. Understandable I suppose because of differing laws and penalities, but pains me to think the same offence occurs here in Canada and they get half that sentence and then when turn around, it is reduced because perhaps it is first offence, then reduced again perhaps because lets see, a plea bargain where they point the finger at the people who supplied them with the drugs in the first place

it still seems a little lopsided to me..plus isnt there a separate investigation taking place looking into the role of airport staff and the drug trade.

still the burden of proof obviously was not made. A simple they did it, wouldnt be good enough for me if I was on a jury and asked to find someone innocent just because they say so...at least show some evidence, any at all, that may give reason to think innocence is possible.

still people make threats against officials, and try and add economic pressure on another country just because 1 person is found guilty of a crime..do you have any idea how many people who are convited of crimes later to be let out after evidence proves otherwise..where were the protests, and boycotts for them...

very lopsided if you ask me.the question I would ask is what makes her so specail anyway to prompt all the neverending support.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Something stinks in the Indo legal system where the Bali bombing mastermind Abu Bakar Bashir gets 4.5 days per victim, or 2 and a half years, and she gets 20 bloody years for something no one can prove otherwise she had any hand in.
I know, Ang. It is angering. You have a right.


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