au revoir quebec, et le rest of canada

[Zoomerang96]

yikes.

how the tide has turned for us poor liberal supporters in canada.

the rcmp is now investigating the latest liberal mishap, and it's looking more and more like this could be the final nail in paul martin's party's coffin.

i can NOT believe we're going to elect a conservative government with STEPHEN HARPER AS OUR PRIME MINISTER.

this destroys me to no end.

i'm a proud canadian who prides himself in believing that he's part of a progressive country, that doesn't pander to the americans, and represents the interests of ALL CANADIANS.

it's funny. when the liberals have scandals, it results in a few million dollars being sent to the wrong people.

when conservatives have scandals, they send their nation's finest to fight a war that doesn't need to be waged in the first place.

oh yes people, canada would be in iraq this very moment if harper and his ridiculous "alliance" party had been in power in the months leading up to the iraq invasion.

we've got it good, people. wake the FUCK UP. if you want to make a statement, if you're sick of the liberals WAIT ONE MORE TERM I BEG OF YOU. harper will be gone, and the conservatives will shift more to the centre.

i sound like a desperate man, because i am one. my entire family is conservative - on both sides. my riding? will never vote anything but for the most right-leaning party available.

and best of all of course, is the fact that a liberal destruction will mean quebec will have filed for soveriegnty within five years.

our country's peak was in the 90's - early 00's. now i seriously wonder what kind of a canada we'll have left in 2.5 weeks.

fuck harper.

 

[trevster2k]

I almost want to see Harper be PM, just to see how badly he can fuck everything up, almost. Don't worry, there entire caucus is made up of rookies who will end up screwing up so badly we will be having another election in about 18-24 months again. I'm no fan of Martin or the Liberals but I agree it's better than the Allianc...Conservatives. Just think Harpur will be invited to Texas on the weekends and help George on the range. We will be one happy conservative family in North America. Awwwww, how sweet.

Then the Alliance will get voted out of oblivion again next election.

 

[A_Wanderer]

And to think that people call that attitude condacending, huh.

 

[dandy]

i still don't think harper's got enough support to win it, regardless of what certain polls say. with any luck, we'll end up with another liberal minority government, and stephen harper will lose the conservative leadership, and that will be that.

that's what i'm hoping for, anyway.

 

[melon]

Even if Harper became PM, the chances of him getting a majority government are seemingly remote, and he'll find himself a bit lonely when the three other parties are all leftist. That means a lot of compromise, and hopefully, that means he'll have to abandon his gay bashing tendencies.

His intolerance and pandering to the Christian Right has always been his downfall.

Melon

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Take comfort Zoom - if Harper wins, it won`t be for long and he`ll probably have to make room for the likes of McKay.

Anyway, leave it to Ontario to save the day once more
In the lead-up to the election in 2004, the pundits were predicting, based on the polls, a Tory minority gov`t. And I think that like 2004, the Tories leading the polls a few weeks before the election will mobilize the left come election day, which won`t translate into votes for the NDP but strategic voting on their part will ensure we have another Liberal government.

 

[Irvine511]

I almost want to see Harper be PM, just to see how badly he can fuck everything up, almost. Don't worry, there entire caucus is made up of rookies who will end up screwing up so badly we will be having another election in about 18-24 months again. I'm no fan of Martin or the Liberals but I agree it's better than the Allianc...Conservatives. Just think Harpur will be invited to Texas on the weekends and help George on the range. We will be one happy conservative family in North America. Awwwww, how sweet.

Then the Alliance will get voted out of oblivion again next election.

sounds like many americans circa 1999 ... be careful what you wish for ...

 

[trevster2k]

I said almost

 

[vervex]

Ahahah.. I also hope Harper won't be elected. He doesn't inspire me any trust and I disagree with most of his ideas, as many Quebeckers. But don't worry... even if he's elected, he'll be kicked from his trone before the end of his mandat. At least, that's what people predict. Now we just gotta hope it will be true.

 

[Zoomerang96]

And to think that people call that attitude condacending, huh.

who asked you?

anyone who respects what's been accomplished in the last 10 years should know better than to trust the alliance.

if the conservatives win in the future with a different NON-PYCHO LEADER, i'm for change.

but for now, i like paul martin. he's been given one mega shitty hand to play with as a result of all the scandals, and he's handled it as well as anyone could.

right since day one, really, his government's been dogged by scandal allegations.

 

[melon]

but for now, i like paul martin. he's been given one mega shitty hand to play with as a result of all the scandals, and he's handled it as well as anyone could.

right since day one, really, his government's been dogged by scandal allegations.

Indeed. Forgetting all about Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin hasn't had a lot of time to prove himself, but what he's done so far has been pretty good. He was a bit wishy-washy, at first, but he eventually developed the courage and conviction that his party needed. It's done him pretty well, so far, and it would be a pity if he was cut off this soon.

Melon

 

[Zoomerang96]

plus, he stands up to you evil americans too.

 

[vervex]

Careful here, not every American is evil More diplomacy, please. eheh.

 

[anitram]

The only thing that may save us in the end is if undecided voters all swing Liberal (there is a tendency to do this) or the waffling NDP voters end up in the Liberal camp in pretty big numbers as was the case last time.

If Harper wins, it will be a minority government. There is no chance that the other parties won't force an election in another 18 months or whenever the first major Conservative fuck up happens.

My parents and brother vote NDP but we may all vote Liberal this time in order to avert major disaster.

 

[Zoomerang96]

wow.

i can't imagine having ONE family member who WOULDN'T vote for the supreme alliance.

and vervex, i was really only kidding...

 

[vervex]

Ahahah it's ok I wasn't serious either !

 

[angelordevil]

yikes.

i can NOT believe we're going to elect a conservative government with STEPHEN HARPER AS OUR PRIME MINISTER.

this destroys me to no end.

i'm a proud canadian who prides himself in believing that he's part of a progressive country, that doesn't pander to the americans, and represents the interests of ALL CANADIANS.

These are empty and vacuous times in Ottawa, but I wouldn’t be too quick in predicting the end of the country, should Harper get in. That’s doing us a disservice, as Canadians. There are things to worry about, no question; issues with large asterisks next to them that have yet to be defined in a Conservative light. Chief amongst these, from my vantage point, is the assurance of continued support for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Although I’ve heard the fear mongers suggest that Harper would get rid of it, I’m not so sure. Short of eliminating the service, they surely couldn’t do it more harm than 13 years of continual cutbacks at the hands of the Liberals.

Others mention health care. Harper is all over this issue. He knows full well it is the issue for Canadians, and it’s clear that we won’t tolerate the transformation to an American version of our health care anytime soon. It simpy won't happen.

On to the Conservatives aligning themselves with the United States, politically, economically, etc. The sad reality is, this is happening right now, as we speak, under Liberal rule. Check out the recent border agreement, the restrictions on who can and cannot visit, and the fully American-style invasion of our privacy. Ultimately, as Conservative as Harper is, if he were to lead a party in the U.S., that party would be left of left wing, and much more Liberal than the Democrats. Our Liberals, meanwhile, aren't exactly following the flightplan of historical Liberalism and its trademark openness.

In the end, Harper is a victim of his own image. Unfortunately (or fortunately) his not-made-for-TV sense of detachment and trademark Legoman hair are proving to be the biggest hurdles in his attempts to become Prime Minister. On top of this, the party will be lucky to win a single seat in Quebec, even with the recent surge in popularity, and on top of the scandals. The best they can do is to slow the progress of the Bloc. This will not instantly become Tory terrain, like the Mulroney-lead party in ’84, which had developed deep roots in the province, thanks to a leader who was based there.

The Liberals are bound to win this thing, again, though they far from deserve it. Social issues (abortion, gay rights, etc,) will again overrule any Conservative upsurge come election day.

What does this say? It says that it’s time for new ideas, new leaders, and new philosophies. I'm waiting (and hoping) for the NDP and Green Party to show their stuff. Often, I believe their supporters have more faith in them than they do themselves. They've got to kick it up a notch, and then some.

It’s a great time to get your feet wet if you’re Canadian, and interested in politics. The well has never been so dry.

 

[trevster2k]

Good post AOD.

Regardless of the outcome, either the Liberals or the Alliance will need a new leader depending on who wins.

On the brightside, at least they are presenting some form of platform this time albeit ridiculous promises which they will never fulfill but it's better than the name-calling of the past. But there are still a couple of more weeks to go.

I really am not sure who will win this time, the polls don't mean anything as the last election showed, swing voters dominate the electorate it seems.

Hopefully, next week's debates ( I hope they are true debates instead of monologues) will prove to be enlightening.

 

[anitram]

I really am not sure who will win this time, the polls don't mean anything as the last election showed, swing voters dominate the electorate it seems.

I think what may happen in the end is swing voters turning out in large numbers for the Liberals like last time.

For example, there are a half a dozen people I work with who have no intention to vote at all, but reading the paper at lunch today they said they're going to go vote for the Liberals because Stephen Haper freaks them out. Nobody polls these people, and they are not considered to be 'likely' voters, and the question is what their numbers and intentions are last minute.

 

[Zoomerang96]

yeah anitram, i think you're right. that'll be our saving grace.

i believe the polls were quite similiar last election, and on election day everyone was expecting the race to be a lot closer that it ended up being.

and angelordevil, i really en7oyed your post. you're spot on, as far as i'm concerned. the cbc is our bbc to a lesser extent, and it's too valuable to give up.

and make no mistake, the conservatives have no use for a network they deem to be nothing but leftist propaganda.

 

[lmjhitman]

Re: Re: au revoir quebec, et le rest of canada

health care. Harper is all over this issue. He knows full well it is the issue for Canadians, and it’s clear that we won’t tolerate the transformation to an American version of our health care anytime soon. It simpy won't happen.

how can you be sure, angelordevil?

that's precisely my fear should harper & co. gain office: that it will give ralph klein the green light to dismantle healthcare as we know it in this province.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

I think what may happen in the end is swing voters turning out in large numbers for the Liberals like last time.

Yep, the momentum for the Tories occurred a few weeks before the election back in 2004 and this galvanized the left (especially in Ontario) and although you would think the Conservatives are happy to be in the lead, they actually would prefer not to peak too soon.

And of course, with the Conservatives now leading most polls Layton is now engaging in fearmongering about a possible Conservative gov't and this is going to be to the Liberals' advantage, playing right into their hands. I would be tearing my hair out if I was an NDP strategist!

 

[trevster2k]

"Harper said the Conservatives will remove the capital gains tax on listed stock donations to charity if they are elected Jan. 23. The measure should make it easier for people to support the charities of their choice, he said."

Whoopee, I know so many people who are giving up stock to charities every year. What a ridiculous "tax cut". I hate announcements like this, same as the 1% GST cut, big friggin deal, if you spend $40,000 dollars, you can save $400 in taxes, umm, most people don't even make that much before taxes.

"A one-per-cent cut in the GST will cut more than $200 from the cost of buying a basic minivan, money Harper said could be used to pay for a couple of child car seats, a new set of snow tires or some other family necessity."

Another wonderful concept, cause Canadians buy new cars every year. Has he ever purchased a car? That $200 saving doesn't exist in anyone's pocket to go out and buy tires, it's part of a 4-5 year payment plan which saves a person $40-$50 dollars off his car payment over the length of the payment. It's not a substantial tax-cut for an average Canadian.

If the tax cuts let Canadians hold "x" amount of dollars in their hand at a specific time, sounds good, like personal taxes or payroll taxes, if we could see the money on our check or in a tax refund. Great! Tax cuts you get by spending money don't help Canadians, it's like going out Boxing Day and buying a $2000 Plasma TV you don't really need, because it's on sale. You may save $300 dollars off the purchase price but you just spent $2000 to do it. The more you spend, the more you save. Huh?

 

[Zoomerang96]

yeah, but harper has a face you can trust!

TRUST HIM OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

 

[melon]

yeah, but harper has a face you can trust!

TRUST HIM OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

I was watching CBC the other day, and I was horrified when I saw about 6 of those "fake interview with Harper" ads in a row. Those ads should die.

Melon

 

[snowbunny00774]

Legoman hair? I always called it Fisher Price hair!!!

Comment to Quebec forumites....I am concerned that Ontario won't pull this one out for the liberals, and was wondering what chance there is of Q giving up some Bloc seats to the libs for fear of a conservative win? any chance?

East Coast - last time Libs lost some ground that had always been a for sure in the past...has that ground been made up and can the Libs depend on it or has the blue tide continued to roll in there - I am also afraid that while the east might have continued to lose faith in the Libs but are not ready to commit to blue, they might turn to the NDP and that will F*** things up in the long run if this is as close as expected. Comments please...

Albertans- If Harper gets the nod, will Klein see this as a gift and personal reassurance from God that he is The Man? I think this more than anything else has me worried about a blue win. I almost feel a blue federal win will actually have more impact on provincial politics in Alberta than any other province. Comments please....

ROWest...I never hear anything from your part of the world except B.C. which by it's nature should be red but I don't know...are people there looking to Alberta for the lead, or what is going on? Again, in BC I am afraid of losing votes to the NDP because people don't want to endorse the scandals that have been happening by giving Martin a majority, but the result might be that he loses enough seats and cannot work a deal with Layton ( who lately appears to have let things go to his head) for a minority.

AOD - I know that we are cooperating with the US in regards to the border etc. however, I feel that Martin has avoided out and out pandering to the US which has put him in some tough spots. I feel that Harper would actually have us and our support for sale...

I went to a conference a while ago, and McKay was one of the last speakers. He drove most of the audience out of there. He actually is a horrible speaker in intelligent debate, and it was a little frightening to hear some of the things he said while talking about Martin's comments on the lumber dispute. Staunch conservatives I was with flinched, and seemed concerned themselves. It worries me that he would might have an influential position with a blue win.

Something else that bothers me is Harpers little swing towards centre in the run up to the election. In the last few years he has been very outspoken and full of brimstone on some issues, and now seams to have toned down the rhetoic to become gentle Stephen, with "Our Canada" at heart. Do hard core conservatives (or those with conservatives in family- ask them) not feel a little pissed off that he appears to be backing down on a lot of things, or are they safe in the knowledge that he will return to his old self if voted in...just wondering how the image shift has been played out to conservatives...

Those are my questions, comments and ramblings for now..answer & comment as you like

 

[Zoomerang96]

haha, aren't those the absolute worst?

i was reading on a different website about the actoress who played the main interviewer...apparently she was called right before the shoot by her agent who would only say "do you want a 7ob?"

she took it and was told where to appear at a certain time.

when she found out what it was for, and for which party, she nearly died. nevertheless, she needed the money and took the position anyway!

kinda funny...next time you watch that commercial, really look at her closely.

 

[melon]

Do hard core conservatives (or those with conservatives in family- ask them) not feel a little pissed off that he appears to be backing down on a lot of things, or are they safe in the knowledge that he will return to his old self if voted in...

I think they have absolutely no doubt that his "kinder/gentler" image is nothing but a ruse to trick voters who haven't paid attention for the last few years.

Melon

 

[bonoman]

The Alberta View:

I;m one of those people you hear stories about, you know, a left leaning Albertan! We are not large in number but we are alive.

Alberta is, and always will be, conservative. They think that if they continue to vote conservative they will be different. They are wrong. Western alienation is self made. They think they are always left out. Well its pretty hard to be included when you refuse to vote for MPs in the ruling gov't.

In actual fact, Klien and Harper dont like eachother very much at all. And Klien is on his way out as some of the leadership hopefuls are doing their best to get him to leave.

One alberta issue is the amount of money we send to Ottawa. Alberta gives more and recieves back less then any other prov. Sure we are flush with money, but it shouldnt be taken to Ottawa to support other. Now thats not my view but most Albertans have that view. I say that we were lucky to have been born in a prov. with so much natural resources, water, oil, lumber, agriculture. But what can you do.

As far as who I'm gonna vote for. My local MP is the genius who thiks we should take over the Turks and Cacos. Idiot! I tend to vote for the candidate not the party. Though this time I dont have enough time to go to the local debates so I'll just be voting on party. I cant vote conservative, after seeing what the alberta conservatives have done in this prov. it would kill me to vote for any right leaning party. As far as the Libs go I dont think I can vote for a man who has his ships under anything but the maple leaf, that is a huge issue with me. I really dont see any huge difference with the Libs and Conservitives. There are maybe 3 or 4 issue that are different but so much of what they are about is the same or fairly close. I am a union man and a strong believer in health care and or fundemental social programs, I actually love the liberals child care program. I will probably end up voting NDP because as far as finace reform goes I'd rather my $1.75 per year go to the NDP. Also they are the only party that supports Proportional Representaion.

So there is the Alberta view, though not the average view. When your friends start saying how albertans are right wing rednecks you make sure to tell them you meet a left leaning albertan and we are all not like Harper and Klien!

 

[snowbunny00774]

I really think this should be merged with Canada Votes 2006 - there are great points in here that shouldn't be lost...