STING2 said:Dreadsox,
First of all, I did not base any arguement I have made on the United Nations Resolutions solely on what Kenneth Pollack had to say. I made the same arguements months ago before I even knew who Kenneth Pollack was. There are many people who have been apart of 4 different presidential administrations who agree that Resolution 678 gives member states the legal right to use all means necessary to enforce any subsequent resolutions after 678. WHAT do you think Subsequent means?
STING do not insult me with a question like that. The definition is irrelevant and we can argue about the intent of 678 when it was passed and what it means. What is important is the past treatment of Cease-Fire Agreements and the fact that the United States based on past history defer to the security council.
You fail to recognize that past history that only the UN Security Council can Declare a country in material breech of a Cease-Fire.
STING2 said:More importantly, I have read all of resolution 687, the one you say makes 678 null and void, or irrelevant. It in fact does the exact OPPOSITE! Look at Paragraph #1 of Resolution 687!
1. AFFIRMS ALL THIRTEEN RESOLUTIONS NOTED ABOVE, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY CHANGED BELOW TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS OF THE PRESENT RESOLUTION, INCLUDING A FORMAL CEACE-FIRE
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Thank you for posting this. I too have read the entire resolution. As have the lawyers that I mentioned in my post above. Their quote speaks for itself as to the interpretation of the LAW.
Now EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY CHANGED BELOW. You posted a KEY point. Part 34 of ARTICLE 687(CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT) gives the SECURITY COUNCIL the power to determine what steps are to be taken from the time the Cease-Fire Was formalized. That specific statement, takes any athority away from the coalition forces and gives it to the security council. I believe I pointed this out last night.
Originally posted by STING2 Having read all of 687, there is nothing in 687 that definitively changes anything in 678. There is not one Quote that says, "678 and its contents no longer apply to any resolutions". Because no changes were made to 678 in 687, and it is definitively AFFIRMED again, paragraph two of 678 continues to stand:?[/B]
See the above statement by the lawyers. See section 34 of Article 687. Very clearly the burden is removed from the Coalition forces and taken upon the Security Council.
Originally posted by STING2 The USA often does things for political reasons rather than legal necessity. That is why it has gone back to the UN on multiple occasions for approval. That is why it may go back to the UN in the next couple of weeks for a new resolution. For political reasons, not because it felt it needed such a resolution from a purely legal standpoint. Any international law expert in the administration will tell you that.[/B]
I can agree with this. Politically it would be wise to get permission from the Security Council. It makes total sense to follow the law and the rules that have been in place surrounding cease-fire agreements. The rules and laws that the United States backed surrounding North Korea and the Middle East.
Originally posted by STING2 To the question of the possible overthrow of Iraq 1991, it is true that it was never the stated purpose of the Coalition to march into Baghdad and overthrow Saddam Hussien. But Authorization was given to Coalition forces to use all means necessary to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait. IF expelling Iraqi forces from Kuwait required the overthrow of Saddam Hussien, such action would be justified. Remember, all means were justified to push the Iraqi Military out of Kuwait.[/B]
Originally posted by STING2 US forces fired hundreds of Cruise Missiles and other munitions at targets where they thought Saddam would be, which according to your interpretation was illegal. Also according to your interpretation, US invasion and occupation of 1/3 of Iraq was illegal. But these actions were legal because they were a means to an end. That end was the expulsion of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. US tanks that were within 150 Kilometers of Baghdad were ready to go there if Saddam had not agreed to the ceacefire. If the coalition had discovered that full and complete expulsion of Iraqi forces from Kuwait required capturing or destroying their leadership by moving into Baghdad, it had the clear legal basis to do so in order to accomplish its ultimate goal. [/B]
Take a deep breath already. You are border line insulting my intelligence. The coalition had every right to do everything it needed to do to remove Iraq from Kuwait including going into Iraq. The question was did they have the authority to procede once he was removed from Kuwait. I have no problems with that. It does not violate what you are calling "MY INTERPRETATION" of 678. it was President Bush, Collin Powell, and other members of the Coalition that believed that to be the facts.
So basically,
#1 Security Council is the governing Authority based on Resolution 687 and is the only body that can declare Iraq in material breech based on past history.
#2 Resolution 687 (Cease Fire) did change Resolution 678 because part 34, places the Security Council in charge.
#3 The Security Council has not found them in material breech.
#4 There have been no resolutions that extend the power of 678.
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