attack on schools may not be so legit

[sharky]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/index.html

I'm sure you all may have heard about this potential attack on schools based on disks they found in Iraq, but check this quote out from CNN.com:

The Department of Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a person in Iraq, and it could not be established that this person had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said.

So they have parents scared about their kids' safety based on the fact that a guy who was planning schools in Iraq had a disk with information about schools in the U.S. Are you kidding me?

 

[diamond]

sharky-
i think you're bright. u however will never give this administration the benifit of the doubt.

they will be never be able to do any right.
if they warn us and a school is not hit theyre using 'scare tactics'.

if a school is actually hit they will be accused for not protecting that school well enough by your political party.

what gives?

diamond

 

[sharky]

I would give them the benefit of the doubt if there was an actual threat. Read the story, there is not. Again, from CNN.com:

"The FBI is examining the materials, but a Department of Homeland Security official said the intelligence community determined there was no threat."

"'There is no threat associated with this,' another government official said."

"Officials said that they are taking the matter seriously though there has been no specific threat related to the recovered material."

"'There is no analysis by the intelligence community that the Iraqi information or Beslan information or any other information indicates there is any plot to attack a school in the United States,' said Brian Roehrkasse, a Department of Homeland Security spokesman."

The story mentions "no threat" or a variation of that FOUR times. So why did the Homeland Security Dept. come out with this "threat"?

Same with a few months ago. Tom Ridge came out and said the NYSE was a target and moved up to an Orange Alert Level. But any New Yorker can tell you we've been at an Orange Alert Level since they instituted that dumb color system. The NYSE didn't need to make changes to their security policy other than to be more thorough with pack back checks. If you didn't know the NYSE was a target since 9/11, you're dillusional. So how come Tom Ridge felt the need to scare us about keeping the SAME threat level on financial institutions that was already in place?

The problem I have is that this administration continues to cry wolf. What happens when there really is a threat and no one takes it seriously because we've done this so many times already?

 

[DrTeeth]

Could it be that he's behind in the polls?

 

[kobayashi]

i read that story on cnn this morning.

it is comical how stories discussing, broadly put, lack of journalistic accountability or poor reliability of intelligence appear alongside stories like this one.

there are no sources named and seemingly nothing reliable to go by except 'official sources'. i do not mean to suggest that breaking news should not be covered and developed within the public sphere, but caveats and disclaimers should be considered in parallel with largely baseless claims.

i direct this post more broadly than the story of today. i find it disconcerting that 'a group believed to have links with al qaeda' and the thoughts of 'unnamed sources' have been, with little question, 'bought' by the media of late without the terms of reference having been defined.

 

[nbcrusader]

After the Chechen attack on the school, I would expect nothing less than an abundance of caution regarding school plans found in Iraq.

The individual involved may have a"connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq" - but I'd bet that there is plenty of assistance going to terror groups through fake fronts.

 

[Dreadsox]

It is scary to me how vulnerable schools are. Columbine proved that.

 

[sharky]

But Columbine was in 1999. We should have made our schools safer since then especially between that, all the other school shooting and 9/11. I think we need to better protect schools especially after Beslan, but this particular story from the Homeland Security Dept. irked me to no end, especially considering the new trendy voting bloc now is the "Security Moms" who fear for their kids safety after 9/11.

 

[Dreadsox]

Exactly what reforms would you put in place to protect schools?

And Columbine is on my mind, since a few towns away they just arrested a kid for planning an attack on his High School.

 

[sharky]

Ya know, honestly, I don't know, Dread.

 

[BVS]

What I find interesting is that the information wasn't for any paticular location or school. This is often the case when planning and recieving drawings from other sources. This is public information and in all honesty really wouldn't aid that much in any kind of terrorist activity.

But that's how the story goes...something that scary makes headlines, but then the retraction gets buried in page 13 with fine print.

What will the people remember? If you don't think this kind of thing helps this administration then think again. If there was a true threat action would be taken and nothing would be leaked to the press.

 

[deep]

AP Poll: Kerry Holds Small Lead Over Bush..........U.S. Alerts Schools About Terror Threat...

How friggin' desperate are they?
They did before and they will do it again.

Take the lowest road---to the highest office.

 

[nbcrusader]

Speaking of loads of crap.....

 

[indra]

Speaking of loads of crap.....

Yep, that is exactly what the "warning" by the delightful Department of Homeland Security is, NBC. I'm so glad you've finally seen the light.

 

[nbcrusader]

I bet you amuse yourself.....

 

[indra]

I bet you amuse yourself.....

Well, at least I have a sense of humour, sweetheart.

 

[A_Wanderer]

You are free to doubt the threat posed by Islamist terrorism as much as you like, but when push comes to shove they still want to kill each and every one of us - regardless of such trivia things as political persuasion or opinions on the WoT.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

I see that a small town in a county that I have never heard of here in Georgia had a high school on that disk that was found. It seems a little odd that this small school in a small town would be of interest for terrorist.

 

[deep]

I bet you amuse yourself.....

i thought that said "abuse yourself...."

 

[indra]

i thought that said "abuse yourself...."

Oh dear! That really does deserve an

 

[deep]

next time, close your blinds

 

[BVS]

You are free to doubt the threat posed by Islamist terrorism as much as you like, but when push comes to shove they still want to kill each and every one of us - regardless of such trivia things as political persuasion or opinions on the WoT.

Oh come on, no one is down playing that terrorism is something that needs to be dealt with, it's just that people are playing (and preying) on those fears. Nothing, I mean nothing can be gained by what was on those disks that couldn't be found with one simple walk through. Our schools have no secret underground escape tunnels, they have no secret means of escape. Schools are the easiest layed out plans of any public building. They are designed specifically for easy in, easy out, and easy wayfinding. Trust me I was in architecure for 10 years. Now if someone in Iraq had a set of plans to a specific casino then you can be scared. Those are designed with the exact opposite intent...easy way in, hard way, horrible wayfinding.

 

[A_Wanderer]

The concept of having these plans is unsavoury, the point is that we should be able to adress this threat without going all henny penny at the government. A measured response to the threat is what is called for, people do not like to consider terrorists siezing and holding a building to massacre innocent kids - it is a terrifying scenario. But just because it is scary is not a reason to dismiss it offhand as propaganda.

If I was planning on siezing a school with the intention of killing a lot of people I would need to have full layouts and pick one where I could make the best defence for the atrocity - you would need to understand points of entry, response times, vulnerabilities to snipers, ventilation systems (gas could be used against you like in the theatre siege), school assemblies (when to attack), how many classrooms, structural weaknesses (for bombs), security systems, how old are the children (it is a lot easier to wipe out young kids than high school students, it is also a lot more effective in weakening the will of a population - to show them that if they dont stop then then their children will be murdered, this would then be turned against the government of the day and you would see protests saying that the blood was on their hands) - see where I am going, running through these risks is the only way to be prepared if such a tragedy eventuated, Beslan was an utter failure because the Russians did not have the plans to deal with the attack, there was no lockdown around the school, the heroism shown after the bomb blown is admirable, but the plan itself was half-baked. These groups do not need underground escape tunnels because they are willing to die for their cause and take as many innocent people with them as they can. Beslan is an example of a terror attack - there is no reason that it could not be repeated anywhere else and when information on specific schools start to pop up in such unlikely places I think that it should really get peoples attention.

I mean for crying out loud the clues were there before 9.11 and ever since we have been hearing how they were ignored; saying that this is not worrying is like thinking the 9.11 terrorists really did just want to learn to fly without learning how to land and just leaving it at that. I would hate to see such an attack mounted and only afterwards hear complaints about the evidence being ignored by the those in a postition to prevent it. We are at war whether we like it or not, you cannot declare a unilateral peace and escape into isolationism.

Also the DHS is downplaying this to avoid a mass panic, the last thing that they want is for people to start acting irrationally because the threat is there. And now I am going to wait to be told that the DHS is a tool of the Bush regime to control the population with fear and that this is what the entire "threat" from terrorism is all about and that the so-called War on Terror is a sham etc. etc. etc.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Also casinos are not nearly as effective as schools. What is more effective as a tool of propaganda, to instill fear into your enemy killing 500 tourists and gamblers or killing 500 innocent kids?

 

[ShellBeThere]

you think you make perfect sense, but you'retotal crap!

 

[A_Wanderer]

Explain then.

 

[Dreadsox]

Well, at least I have a sense of humour, sweetheart.

We could start a thread and debate this mistress.

 

[BVS]

If I was planning on siezing a school with the intention of killing a lot of people I would need to have full layouts and pick one where I could make the best defence for the atrocity - you would need to understand points of entry, response times, vulnerabilities to snipers, ventilation systems (gas could be used against you like in the theatre siege), school assemblies (when to attack), how many classrooms, structural weaknesses (for bombs), security systems, how old are the children (it is a lot easier to wipe out young kids than high school students, it is also a lot more effective in weakening the will of a population - to show them that if they dont stop then then their children will be murdered, this would then be turned against the government of the day and you would see protests saying that the blood was on their hands) - see where I am going, running through these risks is the only way to be prepared if such a tragedy eventuated, Beslan was an utter failure because the Russians did not have the plans to deal with the attack, there was no lockdown around the school, the heroism shown after the bomb blown is admirable, but the plan itself was half-baked. These groups do not need underground escape tunnels because they are willing to die for their cause and take as many innocent people with them as they can. Beslan is an example of a terror attack - there is no reason that it could not be repeated anywhere else and when information on specific schools start to pop up in such unlikely places I think that it should really get peoples attention.

Your fear is duely noted, but from everything I've gathered about this story none of the information you speak about was on these disks. These plans didn't have these specifics. They were basic floor plans, that's it. Anyone could obtain these. Most weren't even specific to a certain address.

 

[deep]

Yep, that is exactly what the "warning" by the delightful Department of Homeland Security is, NBC. I'm so glad you've finally seen the light.

IN BRIEF / WASHINGTON, D.C.
No Terrorist Connection in Disk of School Data
From Times Wire Reports

October 9, 2004

Federal officials said there is no terrorist connection to a computer disk found in Iraq that contained information about schools in six states and there is no threat to the schools.

The disk was made by an unidentified Iraqi man who was doing research and had no connections to Al Qaeda or the Iraqi insurgents battling U.S. forces, according to the FBI. The man did have links to the Baath Party that ruled Iraq under Saddam Hussein, but that's true of many former government officials and community leaders.