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Old 12-21-2004, 07:21 PM   #16
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i know, it totally sucks ass.

the creepy thing is, and i'm just being honest here, but it seems like every day you hear reports about "a bomb blowing up 20 people..." and it just sort of loses its shock effect after a while, you know? it just becomes a number to the mind, and its unfortunately really easy to forget that HUMAN LIVES are being wasted.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:54 PM   #17
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This stuff shatters away the "numbers game" that we play - http://chaplain.blogspot.com/2004/12/mascal.html
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Old 12-22-2004, 02:25 AM   #18
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it is painful and i, and a lot of people i know, understand and share that pain, just the day before 6 turkish security guards were killed on their way to baghdad - they were to serve in the turkish embassy. right there in the same city, mosul.

but what it comes down to is the cold, hard truth. this is war. people are gonna die, and what is shattering is.. it is not so much their fault but the fault of their leaders.

"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in."
-george mcgovern

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
-bertrand russell
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Old 12-22-2004, 05:11 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Like someone to blame
Regardless of your position on the war, please pray for the safety of our troops, the healing of our troops, and of course for the loved ones of all these soldiers who lost their lives today.
Indeed
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Old 12-22-2004, 06:56 AM   #20
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I wish we could bring them home now.

The news just had it that it was a suicide bomber. It makes it so much more dangerous for our troops and civilians alike.
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:10 AM   #21
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My heart is absolutely broken for these families and all others in mourning during this holiday season. It makes other troubles seem minor in comparison.

Nevertheless, I can't just sit here and cry over it. Nor can I accept that some aged civilian in Washington (read: Rumsfeld) is allegedly working "very hard" to make sure that no more young men and women die. Bullshit. We are in this for the duration now and there will be many more like this, mark my words.

This entire administration--right up to Bush himself--can go to hell. I've never said this before--I always thought Bush was a decent, if misguided, man, who truly believed that what he was doing was right. But knowing that he OK'd those torture techniques--personally--I can no longer stomach him in the least. I hope they are all run out of town on a rail, and that soon.
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:17 PM   #22
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My heart goes out to all who were injured and killed in this attack.

I am curious to see what the FBI probe comes back with.

[q]Military probes origin of mess hall blast



BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Investigators in Iraq are looking into whether an explosion that killed 22 in a mess hall was caused by a bomb placed inside the tent or by a mortar or rocket attack from outside.

Initial reports speculated that it may have been a rocket attack, but Task Force Olympia spokesman Lt. Col. Paul Hastings said Wednesday "the cause is unknown." FBI forensic experts were flown to the scene of the blast at Camp Marez outside Mosul.

Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz said it was "certainly a possibility" that a bomb was placed inside the tent. "That's the reason we have our experts up there," he said.

Metz said the forensic experts should be able to narrow down the cause by examining the materials that were used to make the device.

Asked whether witnesses heard a sound like that of an incoming rocket, Metz said wasn't sure, but "the ones that I have heard, you're right -- there is a distinct noise from an incoming missile."

Stainless steel kitchen equipment inside the tent was pitted with circular holes -- a possible sign of ball bearings used as shrapnel to increase the deadliness of a bomb, Hastings said.

"There are perfectly round perforations around the dining hall, in the stainless steel service equipment," Hastings said. They were "very symmetrical perforations, like ball bearings or bb's."

In a revision to an earlier casualty toll, Lt. Col. Steve Boylan on Wednesday said 22 people -- 13 U.S. soldiers, five U.S. civilians, three Iraqi security forces and an unidentified non-American -- died in Tuesday's explosion. Sixty-nine people were wounded, including 44 soldiers.

The death toll puts the number of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war at 1,319, including 1,037 killed in hostile action and 282 killed in nonhostile activities, according to the U.S. military.

The attack was one of the deadliest single incidents for American troops since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, and the one-day toll was the worst since the early days of the invasion.

Between 40 and 50 of the wounded -- many in critical condition -- arrived in Germany on Wednesday for treatment at the U.S. military's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center.

Remains arrive in Kuwait
At a desert military base outside of Kuwait City early Wednesday, the bodies of U.S. soldiers killed in the attack arrived on a C-130 cargo plane.

"Very quietly, very deliberately the remains in body bags ... were brought off by the soldiers who saluted their fallen comrades," CNN's Barbara Starr reported. "They were placed very reverently in some vehicles and then driven off to mortuary affairs specialists here at the Air Force facility in Kuwait. Eventually the remains will be returned to the United States.

Jeremy Redmon, a newspaper reporter embedded in Iraq with troops at Camp Marez, told CNN the blast "knocked soldiers off their feet and out of their seats." (Full story)

Messages on Islamist Web sites said the Iraqi militant group Jaish Ansar Al-Sunna claimed responsibility, calling it a suicide attack carried out by one person. CNN could not confirm the authenticity of the claim.

The group has claimed responsibility for previous attacks, including the beheadings of a Turkish truck driver and a Kurdish official and the slayings of 12 Nepalese hostages. In its statement, it said it shot video of the attack to be released later.

In Washington, President Bush expressed his "heartfelt condolences" to the families of those killed, adding that U.S. troops in Iraq are engaged in a "vital mission." (Full story)

'A level of vulnerability'
CNN personnel who have visited Camp Marez said the dining area is a tent-like facility with no hardened protection -- and that soldiers had specifically raised concerns that they could be targeted by insurgents at meal time.

One had told CNN it was only a matter of time before there was an attack on the mess hall.

"There is a level of vulnerability when you go in there, and you don't feel like there's a hard roof over your head," said Lt. Col. Hastings.

Overall the base has good protection, Hastings said, and a new dining facility is being built.

Bill Nemitz, a reporter with the Press-Herald newspaper of Portland, Maine, who was embedded at the base, said the new facility is made of concrete and was originally set to be completed by Christmas, but construction had slowed and the building is not near completion.

Nemitz said the base's chief medical officer in April expressed concern about the mess hall being targeted and was charged with drawing up a "mass casualty" plan.

Mosul has been a site of repeated attacks in recent weeks. When the U.S. military launched a major offensive in Falluja in November, there was concern some insurgents had fled to Mosul and would launch attacks from there. The military recently conducted an offensive against insurgents in Mosul, but the violence has continued[/q]
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:21 PM   #23
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i have heard reports since yesterday

that it was a suicide bomber

many of the stories coming out of iraq are being filtered by the administration
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Mosul, Iraq, Strike Was Suicide Attack, Myers Says (Update1)

Dec. 22 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. military investigators concluded that yesterday's attack on a U.S. military base in Mosul, Iraq, was the work of a suicide bomber, Air Force General Richard Myers, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters.

At least 22 people were killed in the attack, Myers said at a Pentagon news briefing, including 13 U.S. soldiers and five U.S. civilians. Among the dead was a ``non-U.S. person,'' he said. Sixty- nine people were wounded, including 44 soldiers, he said.

``If it was a rocket, you'd find remnants of the rocket. If it were an improvised explosive device, I'm sure you'd find remnants,'' Myers said. ``This attack is the responsibility of the insurgents, the same insurgents who attacked on 9/11. The way you prevent this is to win the war on extremism.''

The attack, among the deadliest on U.S. forces since the March 2003 invasion, demonstrated the persistent security threat in the country a little more than a month before nationwide elections are due to be held. There are few safe areas in Iraq, Myers and U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged at today's news conference.

`No Front Lines'

``We have no front lines, the front lines can be the dining hall, the mayor's office,'' Myers said. ``They operate everywhere. It's going to be very tough. As this insurgency has changed and it's become more intense, and our resolve has to be all that much tougher.''

Myers said the U.S. military effort would focus on pacifying Mosul, as well as Ramadi and Fallujah in the west-central part of the country, ahead of the elections. The biggest threat, said Rumsfeld, is that Iraqis may be too afraid to participate.

``Intimidation is the kind of thing that can prevent people from providing intelligence, that can prevent people from running for office, that can prevent people from stepping forward to vote,'' said Rumsfeld, 72, who has drawn increasing criticism in the past two week from Democratic and Republican lawmakers who accuse him of failing to adequately protect the troops in Iraq or send enough to improve security enough to allow a national election planned for Jan. 30.

Republican Senators John McCain of Arizona and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska said they ``no confidence'' in Rumsfeld, while Democratic leaders including Nancy Pelosi of California, the House minority leader, have called on President George W. Bush to fire Rumsfeld.

More `Targets'

More troops, Rumsfeld said today, ``creates targets, and that's just the reality.''

``The task for the coalition, for the United States and for the Iraqi people is to have the Iraqi people take over responsibility for their own security,'' Rumsfeld said. ``Our principle job is to work with the Iraqis so that there is a penalty for the kind of behavior one sees with a suicide bomber'' attack.

Rumsfeld also continues to face questions from lawmakers about efforts to supply armored vehicles to Iraq. Including medium and heavy trucks and Humvees, about 39 percent of the military's vehicles in Iraq are unarmored. When a soldier asked Rumsfeld during a ``town meeting'' even with troops in Kuwait, Rumsfeld replied that, ``You go to war with the Army that you have.''

He was also attacked for using a machine to sign letters to the families of military service members killed in Iraq. More than 1,300 U.S. military personnel have died to date in Iraq, and more than 10,000 have been wounded.

``When I meet with the wounded, with their families, or the families of those have been lost, their grief is something I feel to my core,'' Rumsfeld said.
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:56 PM   #25
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:15 PM   #26
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i'm worried to fuck about this.

one of my very best friends lives in a town just outside Scobee, Maine, and a lot of her best friends from home are with the Maine 133rd. she just got home yesterday morning, turned the news on, and saw this, and now she says the whole town's on edge because nobody knows who it is that's been hurt, because the families haven't been told yet. and because the unit is small, she says she almost certainly knows at least one person who was killed.

she's got her 3 best friends in that unit.

she said that communications out of the base are basically shut down. all the information they have so far is that one of the soldiers called home secretly yesterday afternoon, and this is the entire sum of the phone call:

"hello?"
"hi dad, listen to me. i'm okay, but *starting to cry* others from Scobee aren't..."

then the line was cut off. that's the entire amount of information anyone has at this time.

and i'm worried to hell because she's one of my very best friends, and if one of her friends has died, it's going to shoot to hell her christmas, the entire town's christmas, and probably for many years to come.

she was crying on the phone to me last night and there was nothing i could do but listen. that was the hardest thing i've had to do, ever, was to listen to her cry, listen to her helplessness, and not be able to explain a damn thing as to why this had to happen.

you can't. you can't justify this war, and anyone who says they can is ignorant, and doesn't know a damn thing about how this world operates. anyone who thinks this war is right can go to hell.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:41 PM   #27
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I'm sorry for you friend DaveC. They are starting to release names now so maybe she will be relieved. I hope.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
how unpatriotic of you to use that quote in a time of war, deep!
No, how inappropriate to litter a thread not created with the intent to slam one side or the other.

The actions of one person, that Deep is quoting does not belong in here.

There are plenty of opportunities for threads to deal with things like that. In a thread like this, where many of us are worried about friends or loved ones that may or may not have been eating in the mess hall, it is not appropriate.
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Old 12-22-2004, 04:04 PM   #29
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I agree w/ Dreadsox
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Old 12-22-2004, 06:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
i'm worried to fuck about this.

one of my very best friends lives in a town just outside Scobee, Maine, and a lot of her best friends from home are with the Maine 133rd. she just got home yesterday morning, turned the news on, and saw this, and now she says the whole town's on edge because nobody knows who it is that's been hurt, because the families haven't been told yet. and because the unit is small, she says she almost certainly knows at least one person who was killed.

she's got her 3 best friends in that unit.

she said that communications out of the base are basically shut down. all the information they have so far is that one of the soldiers called home secretly yesterday afternoon, and this is the entire sum of the phone call:

"hello?"
"hi dad, listen to me. i'm okay, but *starting to cry* others from Scobee aren't..."

then the line was cut off. that's the entire amount of information anyone has at this time.

and i'm worried to hell because she's one of my very best friends, and if one of her friends has died, it's going to shoot to hell her christmas, the entire town's christmas, and probably for many years to come.

she was crying on the phone to me last night and there was nothing i could do but listen. that was the hardest thing i've had to do, ever, was to listen to her cry, listen to her helplessness, and not be able to explain a damn thing as to why this had to happen.

you can't. you can't justify this war, and anyone who says they can is ignorant, and doesn't know a damn thing about how this world operates. anyone who thinks this war is right can go to hell.
No one on this forum who supports the war is ignorant or deserves to go to hell. My best friend who gets up every day to fly combat missions all over Iraq is definitely not ignorant! My other friends in Iraq who are working hard every day for your security are not ignorant either.

Anyone who thinks they can tell another member of the forum to go to hell needs to re-read the faq/rules page that they agreed to follow when they signed up here.
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