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Old 07-09-2003, 09:57 AM   #31
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Re: other countries backing the war effort:

I'm not trying to make light of this, but weren't a LARGE number of those 50 countries "allies" in name only? These are small countries with little interest in what goes on and less of an ability to send troops or materials toward the war effort. I just remember seeing countries like Armenia or Azerbaijan or something and wondering, "What's the ing point?"

I'm sure someone can find a link stating which countries "signed on" to the war. I'm too lazy to look at the moment.
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:09 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Re: other countries backing the war effort:

I'm not trying to make light of this, but weren't a LARGE number of those 50 countries "allies" in name only? These are small countries with little interest in what goes on and less of an ability to send troops or materials toward the war effort. I just remember seeing countries like Armenia or Azerbaijan or something and wondering, "What's the ing point?"

I'm sure someone can find a link stating which countries "signed on" to the war. I'm too lazy to look at the moment.
Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Britain, Bulgaria, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, Uzbekistan.

Snigger all you want about these countries; I think it's significant that many countries from the former Eastern European Communist bloc signed on.
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer

Snigger all you want about these countries; I think it's significant that many countries from the former Eastern European Communist bloc signed on.
I think it is impressive that so many felt that this was the way to go. I supported the action as well. However, I am not going to say we acted legally in the eyes of international law. As to the list of countries, most did not send troops.
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:27 AM   #34
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I'm not sniggering; I'm just asking how significant it was if they were supporters in name only and did not, as Dread mentioned, actually put troops were their mouths were?
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
I'm not sniggering; I'm just asking how significant it was if they were supporters in name only and did not, as Dread mentioned, actually put troops were their mouths were?
I believe you did snigger about Armenia and Azerbaijan; the former was part of the bloc and the latter was part of the Soviet Union, of course. (And just for kicks, Garry Kasparov was born in Azerbaijan.)

And the US never asked them to supply troops for the war, as far as I know. Why would the US need their troops?
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:24 PM   #36
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Many of these countries are not powerful, and the "coalition" lacked some crucial powerful countries. In case anyone forgot that includes France, Germany, Russia, China........thus the controversy over how much of a "coalition" there was. Sometimes the list made me think "what the fk" too. I wish the peace-keeping troops were more multi-national. The people wouldn't be as angry with the U.S. and Britain if there were other nations represented in the present regime in Iraq. I understand that Saddam's backers would shoot anyone who's against Saddam, but some of these people are irked at the Coalition because they don't have their own government yet and they want it.
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Many of these countries are not powerful, and the "coalition" lacked some crucial powerful countries. In case anyone forgot that includes France, Germany, Russia, China........thus the controversy over how much of a "coalition" there was.
And a "powerful" country's opinion matters more than a "weak" country's opinion because...?

Quote:
I wish the peace-keeping troops were more multi-national. The people wouldn't be as angry with the U.S. and Britain if there were other nations represented in the present regime in Iraq.
Absolutely.
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Old 07-09-2003, 01:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
I'm not sniggering; I'm just asking how significant it was if they were supporters in name only and did not, as Dread mentioned, actually put troops were their mouths were?

The Netherlands was to scared for the USA and to scared to send militairy aid,.. so only in name.
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Old 07-09-2003, 01:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


And a "powerful" country's opinion matters more than a "weak" country's opinion because...?



Do you know about american foreing politics?
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Old 07-09-2003, 02:37 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Do you know about american foreing politics?
I believe you are confusing the issue here.

The question is not whether strong country A has more power to effect a particular policy than weak country B. The question is if country A's opinions are automatically more valid or morally correct than country B's opinions because A is stronger. Reading some of the posts literally, some folks seem to think that the answer to the latter question is "yes".
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Old 07-09-2003, 02:47 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


I believe you are confusing the issue here.

The question is not whether strong country A has more power to effect a particular policy than weak country B. The question is if country A's opinions are automatically more valid or morally correct than country B's opinions because A is stronger. Reading some of the posts literally, some folks seem to think that the answer to the latter question is "yes".
Some countries opinions DO matter more than anothers. Even on the Security Council, that is evident due to the VETO power. THe Five Permanent Members absolutely have more power than others. They have more influence on the politics of the world than the smaller nations.

So yes, since the POWERFUL nations of France, Germany, and Russia could VETO a SPECIFIC authorization of force, it was very important to attempt to get them on board. Reality is if they allowed the VOTE to take place, we would be looking at a very LEGAL war, with more international support. Instead we were left with the President saying we would have a vote no matter what the outcome, back down away from the security council, and go it without the UN.

Now if that is MORAL or not, you and I both know that might does not make right. However, politically in the worlds eyes, yes, might would make a difference if Russia, Germany, CHina and France supported the action. It would have gained LEGITIMACY and I would bet, more support from the ARAB world as well.
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Old 07-09-2003, 03:03 PM   #42
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Thanks, Dread. I really should have specified that I was thinking in terms of politics and not morality. If Country X wanted to support the war, fine. I think it would easier to win the political war in Iraq with a more multinational force with these political power houses on board. I'm not taking swipes at Armenia or Bulgaria or whoever. I have "Internet" buddies in Bulgaria, Lithuania, and several other of these countries on the list. Politically they couldn't add to the mix. Morally, yes, they did. It's not the same thing.
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Old 07-09-2003, 03:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Britain, Bulgaria, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, Uzbekistan.

Snigger all you want about these countries; I think it's significant that many countries from the former Eastern European Communist bloc signed on.
these countries are as significant and relavent to this situation as yesterdays two tenths of rain.

and afghanistan signed on too? isnt that america 2 or something?
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Old 07-09-2003, 03:18 PM   #44
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I'm not saying that they are insignificant or that their opinions do not matter. I'm saying that it's very nice of those countries to come out and say they support the war effort, but why are they named as members of a "coalition of the willing" if they're not willing enough to send troops? Although I didn't agree with this war, I have a problem with the VAST majority of dead troops being American and British, but countries like some of the ones mentioned getting to say that they were part of the "coalition of the willing" just because they *said* they were. Put some money and some troops where your collective mouth is.

I haven't heard a damn thing about troops from most of those countries being in Iraq or the surrounding area, and the last time I checked, there have been no massive protests in most of those countries regarding *their* tax dollars being blown on a war no one wants. Could that be because those countries have sent little, if any, troops or monetary aid?

Nahhhhh.
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Old 07-09-2003, 03:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
Snigger all you want about these countries; I think it's significant that many countries from the former Eastern European Communist bloc signed on.
$$$$$$

And some of them want to get into NATO, some into the European Union. There were all sorts of under the table deals being made.
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