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Old 03-23-2005, 08:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You've mentioned being a fan of "24."

Can you bring me to light about the rivalry I sense between fans of 24 and CSI?

It seems those who like 24 hate CSI and vice versa.
i dont really sense a rivalry.. i havent really watched CSI properly and i am planning to catch up on that when i have the time, it looks like a cool show. but in NO WAY better than 24. i think the CSI fans just cant accept the fact that 24 is the best action show on TV right now.

i dont hate CSI, but that may be cause i only watched a couple of episodes
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Old 03-23-2005, 08:40 AM   #32
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what about nightclubs ?
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Old 03-23-2005, 08:43 AM   #33
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan
what about nightclubs ?
actually the 'discos' i mentioned were more like nightclubs, cause lets face is 'disco' is dead! extinct. wiped from the face of the earth.
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want


more like nightclubs
could you elaborate ...please
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


could you elaborate ...please
check out these websites. laila istanbul is probably the best nightclub we have, btw. here you go:

http://www.worldsbestbars.com/city/i...a-istanbul.htm

http://www.marmarisinfo.com/life/nightlife.phtml

http://www.formula1-istanbul.com/f1/...nks/Night_Life
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:20 AM   #36
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Turkey: best country i've every been to (well, second to Canada).

How strong is the Muslim fundamentalist movement?

Also, how do you feel about joining the EU? Do you ever feel there's a latent (maybe racist or religious based) Western European hostility toward Turkey and that other countries in Europe had it way easy to join the EU?

[My favorite part of Turkey: Ephesus]
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:30 AM   #37
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Would you like to see Turkey in the EU?



sd
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judah
Turkey: best country i've every been to (well, second to Canada).

How strong is the Muslim fundamentalist movement?

Also, how do you feel about joining the EU? Do you ever feel there's a latent (maybe racist or religious based) Western European hostility toward Turkey and that other countries in Europe had it way easy to join the EU?

[My favorite part of Turkey: Ephesus]
grassroots, not very strong. but the government.. i dont trust them one bit. still, they are very pragmatic and theyre playing their cards right. they know they cant come up with over the top fundamentalist ideas for new legislation, because they are usually cut short before they even reach the parliament, by pressure from the media, civil movements, the EU etc. and the other parties in the country are plain incompetent. very frustrating. these guys are a lot like the republican party. moralists, hypocrites.. you know what i mean.
ironically the opposition, which i tend to support is called the republican people's party.

i would like turkey to join EU very much, and i think there are good incentives for both parties. turkey could bring a dynamism into the union, strenghten its hand in global affairs, become a powerhouse for european firms and its geographic position is also quite essential.

about the second part, i do feel that we are being treated differently than the other candidates, and a lot of us are very much aware of it. countries like bulgaria and romania that are in far worse shape than us, in every sense of the word, are getting in in 2007, and we probably wont make it before 2015. even then, i think at the moment the europeans are just continuing with the talks because they dont want turkey to stray away from the EU and look for other associations. i think the 'special partner' idea is pretty much what EU is looking for, not to have turkey as a member. and god knows, after all this time, we wont settle for that. after all the promises made for all these years, nobody is willing to settle for less than full membership, and really, why should we? overall, i dont think europeans are genuine about their intentions to let turkey join the union, except for the british, spanish and the italians. i dont like it one bit

what i hope for is that as we pursue this EU membership, we will get to the point where, economically and socially, we dont even need the union anymore. then we'll have some hand, we'll be able to tell them just to piss off if they dont want us. cause i am really sick of european politicians' habit of changing mouth all the time.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:14 PM   #39
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I'm planning a tour through the Balkan/South East Europe this summer (including at least Istanbul).
Do you have happen to know some very nice insider "Off the beaten tourist track" spots around in West/ North West Turkey?(cultural, natural, nightlife)
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vorsprung
I'm planning a tour through the Balkan/South East Europe this summer (including at least Istanbul).
Do you have happen to know some very nice insider "Off the beaten tourist track" spots around in West/ North West Turkey?(cultural, natural, nightlife)
you should go to canakkale, it is one of the WWI battle sites, quite historical town (the city of troy was there) it is unspoiled and it is full of curiosities. you should also visit the WWI memorials there, both for the turkish and australian/new zealanders, it is quite intense emotionally. still, the city does not have the same nightlife you could get in istanbul or down there in izmir. it is not frequented by tourists, but it is simply beautiful.

talking about nightlife, you might want to go to cesme, izmir, and also most of the west coast is plain beautiful, lots of beaches, AMAZING nightlife. lots of historical sights, ephesus and other ruins. also, go to bodrum. although not very off the beaten track, it has a wild nightlife, it is swarming with tourists most of the year.

actually, i am in the netherlands right now, could you recommend me some places i should see?
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:28 PM   #41
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Sorry if my post isn't as intelligent as everyone else's, but I honestly don't know much about your country. So you can help me.

I know Turkey is a secular Muslim country...I was once reading an article that blew this off by basically saying they're forced to be secular by armies and such...the person made it sound like it was some kind of anti-religion, communist-like government. Now I know that's an exaggeration, but could you explain a little bit exactly what role religion plays, how the government operates, how the secular aspect is different from other Western secular countries, etc...just a basic overview for a clueless idiot.

I do know that your food is awesome though...I once went to a Turkish restaurant with my grandparents I think, and it was
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:47 PM   #42
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Well, since pretty much everything outside of Amsterdam is off the beaten track (yes, there is more in The Netherlands than just Amsterdam!!), just visit some other town.
Groningen, Zwolle, Maastricht, Den Bosch ('s Hertogenbosch), Leiden all are quite pretty nice, just to name a few.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
Sorry if my post isn't as intelligent as everyone else's, but I honestly don't know much about your country. So you can help me.

I know Turkey is a secular Muslim country...I was once reading an article that blew this off by basically saying they're forced to be secular by armies and such...the person made it sound like it was some kind of anti-religion, communist-like government. Now I know that's an exaggeration, but could you explain a little bit exactly what role religion plays, how the government operates, how the secular aspect is different from other Western secular countries, etc...just a basic overview for a clueless idiot.

I do know that your food is awesome though...I once went to a Turkish restaurant with my grandparents I think, and it was
ok, i should probably start off with a bit of history. 1918, WW1 was over for the ottoman empire, and they were on the losing side, along with the germans and austrians. after the war, the sultan basicly gave up and decided to deal with the occupying countries: french, british, greeks and italians. pretty much everyone. british invaded istanbul and iraq and most of middle east, french invaded the southeast and syria, greeks invaded the west, italians invaded the south and the british offered the east to the armenians so they could create their own country there (some armenian maps still show those territories as armenia). what would be left is basicly 1/8th of the country we have today, and that would be mostly mountain ranges and whatnot.

then there were local movements to fight off the invaders, but they were dispersed and not very effective. one of the army officials, mustafa kemal (later took the name ataturk) held a national congress in sivas, central turkey today, and started a major movement to fight off the invaders, in 1919. with whats left of the ottoman army and draft from the existing rebel movement, a proper army was put together, and the army fought off the greeks, and liberated the west. after that they liberated istanbul and british, french and italians just decided to leave turkey afterwards. in 1923, the republic was founded, and with it many reforms were put into motion - secularism, culture reforms, economic reforms, language reforms and basicly this changed the way of life all over the country, in a period of 10 years. the war torn nation in 1923 paid off its debts before the 30s, and the country was fundamentally changed.

the man who started everything, ataturk, was a general. after the introduction of the republic, there were several islamist insurgencies, which were quite effectively suppressed. the freedoms as we know them today were a gift of that great man, and the army that he lead. ataturk himself was not a religious man, and he believed that the only way to secure religious freedom in the country was to strip it from admistrative and judicial branches. only if the legislature and government was secular, they would treat the different religious beliefs equally. his political party, republican people's party, is a social democrat party which is the political stronghold of secularism. our army today is the most secular organization in the country, and it is a guarantee for us against the fundamentalist movements. what the west doesnt understand is we dont see the army as an oppressor, we trust our army and the job they are doing. actually, and quite sadly, the army today is the most trusted organization in the country, rating higher than the government, judiciary and the parliament. it is mostly the fundamentalists who complain about army's role because it is a roadblock for them. but a lot of the secular turks sleep easy at night knowing if anything was to happen, army is there to step in and protect the secular republic.

now, this is not anti-religion, because the aim is not to suppress religious beliefs, it is to keep them away from the administation of the country. religion here is seen as a private matter, not a public issue. everyone is free to practice their religious beliefs as long as they dont try impose them on others.

there is an state sponsored organization, the religious affairs office, that basicly trains and assigns imams to local mosques and if the request is made to places like germany where there is a high muslim concentration. they have no influence on politics or judiciary. laws are NOT based of religion.

that was kinda long but it was sort of necessary to fully explain the role of the army and the whole issue of secularism. i hope that cleared some of the things you werent sure about
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vorsprung
Well, since pretty much everything outside of Amsterdam is off the beaten track (yes, there is more in The Netherlands than just Amsterdam!!), just visit some other town.
Groningen, Zwolle, Maastricht, Den Bosch ('s Hertogenbosch), Leiden all are quite pretty nice, just to name a few.
oh yeah i live in maastricht and its beautiful really. i was planning to visit the north and maybe places like utrecht, breda, tilburg. i am loving my time here though
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:00 PM   #45
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thanks all_i_want, that cleared things up! I learned a little about ataturk in social studies last year, I just wasn't clear on the true extent of Turkey's secularism. Is secularism a word? lol, you know what I mean.
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