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Old 05-20-2007, 07:48 PM   #106
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Originally posted by yolland
It seems like Texas, Florida and West Virginia are three states that always fall into to the 'subject to debate' category..
Being a Californian

I tend to look at those states as part of the South

based on the "Civil War" actions, Civil Rights history, and voting patterns.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:13 AM   #107
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Being a Southerner, Texas is a western state, Florida is south of the South, and good riddance to West Virginia
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:24 AM   #108
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Originally posted by yolland
(I will acknowledge that, for example, the "Southern charm" stereotype sometimes allows you to get away with being quite rude to someone's face without them really realizing it, which can have its uses)
Quite frankly, it's this quality that has long made me suspect of any "happy" Southerner. It has never worked on me, and this "Northerner" can certainly be quite rude back in an equally snarky way.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:47 PM   #109
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Originally posted by U2democrat
Being a Southerner, Texas is a western state, Florida is south of the South, and good riddance to West Virginia
Hey, my grandfather was born in West Virginia! I've only been there twice. It's sort of a depressing state because there's so much poverty and unemployment there.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:51 PM   #110
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The line in Kentucky is drawn somewhere between Lexington and Louisville. Lexington is a very southern town, I lived there 8 years. Louisville is definitely a midwestern city.
Thanks for the information. Kentucky is an interesting state. I've been through it twice, but we didn't stop there and see anything.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:58 PM   #111
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Originally posted by deep


Being a Californian

I tend to look at those states as part of the South

based on the "Civil War" actions, Civil Rights history, and voting patterns.
Well, many states outside the South have lousy Civil Rights backgrounds. Ohio and even Massachusetts have had racial strife. Kentucky isn't considered a Southern state because it didn't secede. It wasn't a slave state.
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:41 PM   #112
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Kentucky was indeed a slave state, as were Delaware, Maryland, Missouri and West Virginia; however the former four never seceded, while West Virginia split off from Virginia during the War to join the Union. Missouri and Maryland officially abolished slavery during the War; it took the 13th Amendment to see to that for the rest, Union slave states included. (It's a common misconception that 'Union slave state' is an oxymoron, but it isn't true; it is broadly true, however, that the economies of these 'border states' were far less dependent on slavery than those of the Confederate states.) Most of the Northern states that had once allowed slavery--Vermont, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey--officially ended it by the late 18th century, though in practice it did not fully end in most of them until the mid-19th.

As for the Civil Rights era, yes that was marked by many ugly race riots as well as rampant housing and employment discrimination in many Northeastern and Midwestern cities, however, the 'Jim Crow' regimes of the South were indisputably the nadir (with resistance to desegregation being fiercest and bloodiest in the 'Deep South'), and so that was the Movement's initial focus. A major goal of MLK's intended 'next stage' was to move on to address racism in the North, but he had really only just begun this phase (recall him getting stoned by 'White Power' demonstrators in Chicago in 1966, for instance) when he was assassinated; plus, the liberal coalition driving the first stage was fraying badly by the mid-60s.
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:19 AM   #113
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having a crazy shoot in the Dallas area, and all i can say is that people are more polite, though not necessarily "nicer."

and Texas seems to be the place where a southern drawl marries a western twang.

i'm beginning to say, "ThanQ!" instead of "thank you."

am currently closer to OK than to Dallas, and this is some of the prettiest countryside i've ever seen. and it's true, the waving wheat can sure smell sweet when the wind comes right behind the rain.
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:36 AM   #114
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Guys, referring to you all Southerners... I just want you to know that although I do indeed stereotype the majority of you as shotgun-stowing, bible-thumping, NASCAR-watching folks, biscuits and grits are FUCKING AMAZING so I <3 you.

Also I like NASCAR so there you go.
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:53 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
having a crazy shoot in the Dallas area, and all i can say is that people are more polite, though not necessarily "nicer."
Good luck with the shoot! Hope the "politeness" helps a little with getting enough feedback from people for your footage.

I think the distinction between 'polite' (I think the way I put it was 'hospitable', but same thing really) and 'nice' or 'kind' is a fair one...ultimately it's more a question of a certain concept of manners and how to handle social situations, than of necessarily "liking" people more or feeling better disposed towards them. Ironically, when I mentioned 'getting away with being rude' before, what I had in mind wasn't so much people's reactions to my own behavior, but rather my own responses to a couple Southerners from further east (Virginia and Georgia specifically) whom I knew back when I worked retail...their accents weren't the same certainly, but more like each other's than either was like mine, and even to me, that warm, buttery Piedmont/coastal-type accent codes 'charming' and 'gracious' so strongly that a few times I found myself thinking, Eh...wait a second...she basically just told me in so many words to go f*** myself there, didn't she? lol. But I'm sure I've had the same effect on some people before too.
Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
Guys, referring to you all Southerners... I just want you to know that although I do indeed stereotype the majority of you as shotgun-stowing, bible-thumping, NASCAR-watching folks, biscuits and grits are FUCKING AMAZING so I <3 you.
Not much on guns, bible-thumping or NASCAR, but grits... I think grits, greens and okra are the acid test of how much someone really likes Southern food...almost everyone likes biscuits, fried chicken and BBQ, but not many non-Southerners enjoy the former three. It's unconventional, but I really like grits baked, with some roasted garlic and eggs stirred into them. Southern Jews also like them with lox , although that I wouldn't expect anyone else to appreciate without effort.
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Yeah, Jewish people. There aren't many of them here. The ones that are here are mostly scientists who moved in from the North. They helped make our university here. Many of them were in the civil rights movement and got harrassed by the Klan. We are very proud of our university, and of the people who made it what it is.
That more or less sums up my parents' experience, although MS Valley State U perhaps isn't quite the point of pride locally that I'd imagine UAB is.


While I certainly don't have a scrap of sympathy for anyone once active in prosegregationist politics or "activism" who feels like they got an undeserved bad rap somehow, I do often feel like 'outsiders' (for lack of a better word) naively underestimate just how dangerous it often was to be actively involved in the Civil Rights Movement, especially in the Deep South, no matter who you were. Most Southerners, period, avoided direct involvement or public stance-taking one way or the other in those days, and not without reason. Some feared change, some feared the Klan, some feared the authorities...some all three.
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:58 PM   #116
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My mom in from Louisiana, and I me some grits! Biscuits and sausage gravy too.
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:18 PM   #117
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I had only tried instant grits before, and I thought they were crap. Then I stayed a week in New Orleans and dined on some homemade grits. SOOO much better!
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:27 PM   #118
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Mmmm large bowls of okra and creamed corn
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:45 PM   #119
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I searched for what grits is and wikipedia only has articles in English, German and Polish about it.
Here it is grieß, and I know it. It tastes fine, though I'm not particularly crazy about it.
I also looked up the lox and have to say it sounds very interesting.
I think I'll have to come over for a week or so to try out the (Southern-) US meals.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:07 PM   #120
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^ Just don't try asking for your 'grieß' with lox if you do, unless you're in a Southern Jewish home...no other Southerners do that, so they'll think you're a foreigner, lol.

Actually, most of the Jews in the specific area I grew up in were of German heritage, and I'm pretty sure the grits-with-lox custom developed as a substitute for the bagels, bialys or other rolls they might have eaten lox with back in Europe. There were a lot of 'Southernized' European Jewish dishes like that which we ate..."mandel" brot made with pecans, kugel (casserole baked in round pans) or "tzimmes" (zum + essen) made with sweet potatoes, etc. Then the other way round, a lot of traditional Southern dishes which were adapted to be kosher, too...gumbo with matzoh balls, barbecued lamb or beef instead of pork, greens cooked with smoked turkey wings instead of smoked ham hocks, etc.

Now I'm making myself really hungry...
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