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Old 05-16-2007, 11:21 AM   #61
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Originally posted by yolland

I don't think there could be any one broadly agreed-upon answer to this--ultimately the South is just a region of the US, and while everyone might agree on 'The Star-Spangled Banner' as a unifying "anthem" that one way or the other addresses something shared and central to everyone's self-concept, there isn't any one experience of being Southern so irreducible that it could really be 'anthemized' in that way. In my opinion, anyhow.

Personally, I'd probably choose something by a Delta bluesman, maybe a Robert Wilkins song. But I'm from western Mississippi so of course I'd say that...
Yeah, I'd pick something by a Delta bluesman. You're right, yolland, there's no unifying song representing the South. "Dixie" is too divisive. It's seen as perhaps unifyinig the whites, but not everyone. Every year B.B. King plays a concert in his home town. I forget the name of the town. But it's seen as a great unifier. Everyone comes out for the show.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:26 AM   #62
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^ BB's from my hometown! Itta Bena, MS. Although I haven't been back since his museum opened up...very high on my 'to-do' list.

Yeah, 'Dixie' attracts similar controversy to the Rebel Flag...maybe somewhat less so, though at least in my (now dated) experience, it's actually a lot less common to hear 'Dixie' in any sort of public setting than it is to see the Rebel Flag in one.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Yeah, 'Dixie' attracts similar controversy to the Rebel Flag...maybe somewhat less so, though at least in my (now dated) experience, it's actually a lot less common to hear 'Dixie' in any sort of public setting than it is to see the Rebel Flag in one.
Here in the burg we have residents who have horns in their cars that play the first few notes of Dixie
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:47 PM   #64
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Do you take pride in your accents?

How do you feel about the southern stereotypes?

How many non-Protestants do you know?
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:09 PM   #65
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Originally posted by unico
Here in the burg we have residents who have horns in their cars that play the first few notes of Dixie
Yeah, I've heard of those car horns...I'm guessing there's probably a large overlap between those folks and the Rebel Flag-toting crowd, too. I more had in mind that 'Dixie' isn't the sort of thing you'd hear at government functions nowadays (whereas in MS at least, the Rebel Flag is, shamefully, still part of the state flag design). More than once during the 60s my parents participated in marches where the marchers had rocks thrown at them by pro-segregationists chanting 'Dixie', by way of response to the marchers chanting 'We Shall Overcome'. So that's pretty much the associations I have with the song.

I don't know...in truth, where I grew up there wasn't as much of that sort of thing (Confederate emblem nostalgia etc.), but then the town was close to 90% African-American, as is much of western MS, so you wouldn't expect tons of it. I did know a few families who flew the Rebel Flag and all that, some of them had pretty much the racial attitudes you'd stereotypically expect based on that, and some of them seemingly didn't (although I doubt there's anyone who flies that flag who doesn't feel contempt towards black people on some level, 'Now why are they always trying to make us feel ashamed of our heritage' etc. etc.). If they didn't, then as far as I could tell the main sentiment behind it for them was essentially "Leave me the f*** alone"--you know, the stereotypical redneck life outlook; all you righteous-talking, clean-living, anti-Rebel Flag, anti-gun pretentious do-gooders can go f*** yourselves. And the funny thing is, almost invariably these people were themselves the descendents of poor sharecroppers and were typically pretty much still at the present-day equivalent of that socioeconomic level. It's not like their folk benefited much from that system or especially its aftermath (segregation) other than the, well, psychological 'compensation'. Pathetic to attach that kind of 'pride' to something so divisive. But resentment is a powerful emotion and those people seemed to feel it towards a whole lot of things. Maybe it's different elsewhere.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:29 PM   #66
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Reading this I'm curious, how do blacks and whites live together today?
Is there still a kind of segregation present, meaning normally whites live and act together with whites, and blacks rather stay with whites? Or is it mixing more and more?

Hope that doesn't go too much into stereotypes or something, but it's very hard to see how things are going from so far away.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:00 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Do you take pride in your accents?

How do you feel about the southern stereotypes?

How many non-Protestants do you know?
I don't have much of an accent. It was trained out of me in high school by my speech teacher, who was from Illinois. I don't care for the stereotypes, but it depends on what they are. We all eat fried food, so that's fair enough. I'm a convert to Catholicism. I know the people in my church. The head pastor is from Ireland. The associate is a convert from Wisconsin.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Reading this I'm curious, how do blacks and whites live together today?
Is there still a kind of segregation present, meaning normally whites live and act together with whites, and blacks rather stay with whites? Or is it mixing more and more?

Hope that doesn't go too much into stereotypes or something, but it's very hard to see how things are going from so far away.
Whites and blacks still live in separate neighborhood. They marry each other. There's not much marriage outside of the ethnic group. I think this is personal preference, not fear. They just fall in love with each other. There are some mixed marriages, but not many.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:06 PM   #69
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Incidentally, the Confederate flag that is flown all over the place here is the battle flag of the Confederacy, not the Confederate Flag that was flown over the statehouses. I don't know why they chose that flag.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:09 PM   #70
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Oh, sorry. Wasn't asking about marriage, but rather how they live as neighbours and so on. The social living rather than close relationships.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:17 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Oh, sorry. Wasn't asking about marriage, but rather how they live as neighbours and so on. The social living rather than close relationships.
To be quite honest, I've seen more segregation in the north than I do in the south.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:24 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Yeah, I've heard of those car horns...I'm guessing there's probably a large overlap between those folks and the Rebel Flag-toting crowd, too. I more had in mind that 'Dixie' isn't the sort of thing you'd hear at government functions nowadays (whereas in MS at least, the Rebel Flag is, shamefully, still part of the state flag design). More than once during the 60s my parents participated in marches where the marchers had rocks thrown at them by pro-segregationists chanting 'Dixie', by way of response to the marchers chanting 'We Shall Overcome'. So that's pretty much the associations I have with the song.

I don't know...in truth, where I grew up there wasn't as much of that sort of thing (Confederate emblem nostalgia etc.), but then the town was close to 90% African-American, as is much of western MS, so you wouldn't expect tons of it. I did know a few families who flew the Rebel Flag and all that, some of them had pretty much the racial attitudes you'd stereotypically expect based on that, and some of them seemingly didn't (although I doubt there's anyone who flies that flag who doesn't feel contempt towards black people on some level, 'Now why are they always trying to make us feel ashamed of our heritage' etc. etc.). If they didn't, then as far as I could tell the main sentiment behind it for them was essentially "Leave me the f*** alone"--you know, the stereotypical redneck life outlook; all you righteous-talking, clean-living, anti-Rebel Flag, anti-gun pretentious do-gooders can go f*** yourselves. And the funny thing is, almost invariably these people were themselves the descendents of poor sharecroppers and were typically pretty much still at the present-day equivalent of that socioeconomic level. It's not like their folk benefited much from that system or especially its aftermath (segregation) other than the, well, psychological 'compensation'. Pathetic to attach that kind of 'pride' to something so divisive. But resentment is a powerful emotion and those people seemed to feel it towards a whole lot of things. Maybe it's different elsewhere.
I think the last time I heard Dixie being played at a public function was during the St. Patrick's Day parade in Savannah, GA. Shamefully, it was MY college marching band that played it. Ironically, it was the original version of our fight song, it starts out with the Dixie melody and then the rest is all "yay we love hokies!"

I never quite understood the whole "heritage not hate" BS retort myself. I agree with you. Regardless of whatever people spit out at me, I still believe that there has GOT to be racism entangled with waving that flag to this day. Even if one claims not to have racial prejudices, it has been made quite publically clear that the flag's very presence is offensive. If they REALLY cared so much about black people, the white confederate flag bearers would take down the flag so as not to offend. It is a load of crap.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:57 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


To be quite honest, I've seen more segregation in the north than I do in the south.


it's interesting ... i've talked about this with Memphis, and the north is far, far whiter than the south, no question, and i think you're correct as far as black/white segregation. simply because there are many more blacks in the south you're bound to have greater levels of black/white living side-by-side.

however, in terms of other kinds of diversity, the south doesn't seem to be as diverse as other regions. Memphis had never met a Jewish person until he moved to WDC. not many Indians or East Asians or other groups.

so ... yeah, all interesting.

i dunno. i have a shoot in Dallas next week, and i'm weirdly looking forward to it. i know Dallas isn't Dixie -- which is fine, i think cowboys are hotter than farmers -- but i have noticed that people are generally very pleasant to deal with, especially as i'm making kind of pain-in-the-ass requests. there seems to be such an ingrained level of politeness that i find quite appealing.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:20 PM   #74
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Yeah, Jewish people. There aren't many of them here. The ones that are here are mostly scientists who moved in from the North. They helped make our university here. Many of them were in the civil rights movement and got harrassed by the Klan. We are very proud of our university, and of the people who made it what it is.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:48 PM   #75
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One of my favorite things about the South is boiled peanuts. I'm eating some right now. Yum!
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