Ask the peace-loving, friendly Israeli Jew..... - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-29-2006, 06:40 AM   #1
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Ask the peace-loving, friendly Israeli Jew.....

Well, I've seen these threads on FYM so I decided to jump on the bandwagon and offer myself to any member who has any questions about my country and/or my religion.

I'm sure you guys sometimes watch the news and wonder if what you're seeing is the whole story - so I'm going to let you ask whatever you want and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

So...fire away....
__________________

__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 06:59 AM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:10 AM
How would you rate your country from a religious pluralism point of view i.e. separation of church and state?
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 07:00 AM   #3
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:10 PM
Well I know that you feel that America has too much freedom of speech, so I ask where do you or would you draw the line?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 01-29-2006, 08:45 AM   #4
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
How would you rate your country from a religious pluralism point of view i.e. separation of church and state?
Because our statehood was based on our religion (i.e. a Jewish state), many laws of the land have biblical origins.

For instance, our work week is either 5 days or six days (with Friday being a half day). Offices and places of business close down for the Sabbath from Friday afternoon till Saturday night.

Exceptions to this rule are bars, pubs, night clubs, etc.

As for pluralism:
The prevailing religious law in Israel is according to the Orthodox stream of Judaism, with very little leniency on the part of the Rabbinate (the Jewish version of the supreme court) in cases of other streams - the Conservative and Reform.

All aspects of Jewish life (i.e., marriage, birth, death) are according to the orthodox stream of Judaism. This sometimes poses a big problem for secular Jews who don't wish to follow the religious rites in their daily lives. For instance, only marriages performed by an orthodox Rabbi are recognized by the state. Israeli civil law allows for civil marriages, however these unions are not recognized for various purposes - which is a shame.

In the Israeli school system, there are secular schools and religious schools. The religious schools open the day with the morning prayer and place a large emphasis on bible studies in the curriculum(sp?), and the secular schools have a regular curriculum including math, history, physics, English, computers, etc.

Because the laws of the land go according to the orthodox stream of Judaism, many non-religious Jews find themselves "forced" to obey religious laws even though they don't want to.

All the above notwithstanding, the rabbis and secular leaders have reached an "understanding" in some religious matters - leaving it to the discretion of some businesses on if they want to stay open on the Sabbath. However, if a restaurant is open on the Sabbath, it is classified as being "non-Kosher" (even if they serve kosher food).

The rabbis don't interfere with day-to-day business such as pubs, clubs, etc. They are very much aware that the majority of Israelis don't observe the Sabbath and/or the religious laws.

Another issue which has been in and out of the public eye is "The law of return". This is a law that states that any Jew in the world has the right to immigrate to Israel and automatically receives Israeli citizenship. This law defines "who is a Jew?" by two criteria:
1. The person was born to a Jewish mother.
2. The person converted to Judaism by an orthodox rabbi.

I hope this answered your question. Please feel free to ask if you need further clarification.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 08:57 AM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Thanks for response.

Your post largely addresses the position of secular Jews. How are the rights of Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc safeguarded?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 08:58 AM   #6
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well I know that you feel that America has too much freedom of speech, so I ask where do you or would you draw the line?
Thanks for your question BonoVoxSupastar.....

I would draw the line at inflammatory remarks made with the specific purpose to offend and slander - much like Harry Belafonte saying that George Bush is "The world's biggest terrorist" or the teenager who wore a t-shirt with Bush's picture with the word "Terrorist" written under it.

Also, I cite the case of Prof. Ward Churchill who compared the 9/11 victims to Nazis who got what they deserved.

I find a big difference between a legitimate protest - for instance, standing outside the white house with a sign that says "Stop the war/killing/slaughter/..." whatever, and standing outside the white house and burning George Bush in effigy (not that it happened, I'm just citing examples).

As I understand, the first amendment gives the people the right to speak out their opinions, but some take it too far and abuse that right by slandering other people. Surely there are other ways to protest George Bush's policies than labelling him a "terrorist".

So, in short, I respect any person's right to express his/her opinion BUT I would hope that they would use good judgement in whether or not their words would cause great harm and offence to the other person.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 09:20 AM   #7
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Thanks for response.

Your post largely addresses the position of secular Jews. How are the rights of Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc safeguarded?
In the Israeli declaration of independence signed on May 15th, 1948, it says specifically that Israel welcomes and respects the other religions in the country.

There are several non-Jewish organizations in Israel that enjoy good relations with the Israeli government. For instance, there is the Christian embassy in Jerusalem and the Islamic Waqf (which has control over the temple mount in Jerusalem), to name a few.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and the center of Judaism. When the city was unified in 1967 we stayed true to our declaration and kept all the other religious institutions intact out of respect for them. We acknowledge that Jerusalem is an important religious center for Muslims and Christians and we act accordingly.

The other religions freely practice their rites without any interference from Israel. A good example of this is the annual midnight mass in Bethlehem on Christmas and the Palm Sunday procession on Easter in Jerusalem.

There are special commitees set up in order to look into different aspects of the other religions and Israel makes very sure not to disturb the delicate balance and harmony that prevails between everyone.

As for athiests, as I mentioned in my previous post, if a person wants to get married, divorced, etc., he must go according to the orthodox rites of Judaism if he wants his marriage (especially his children) recognized by the state.

I'll give you another example: Israel has a flourishing gay community and there are two festivals which are celebrated each year. The annual "Gay pride" parade and the "Love Parade" (much like the one held in Germany and around the world). These parades are held in Tel-Aviv only. An attempt to hold a "Gay pride" parade in Jerusalem was met with fierce resistance from the orthodox rabbis because of the religious character of Jerusalem (and, of course, the bible forbids homosexuality).

So for athiests, there is a civil rights movement in Israel that helps protect their rights against religious "coersion".
__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 12:58 PM   #8
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 07:10 PM
Have you seen Munich? If so, what did you think?
__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 01:35 PM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Another issue which has been in and out of the public eye is "The law of return". This is a law that states that any Jew in the world has the right to immigrate to Israel and automatically receives Israeli citizenship. This law defines "who is a Jew?" by two criteria:
1. The person was born to a Jewish mother.
2. The person converted to Judaism by an orthodox rabbi.
Just hypothetically, what if this person was born to a Jewish mother who had been converted from Christianity by a reform rabbi and later converted back to Christianity?



Thanks for all the info so far, btw, I will try to think of a better question later...
__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 06:31 PM   #10
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


In the Israeli declaration of independence signed on May 15th, 1948, it says specifically that Israel welcomes and respects the other religions in the country.

There are several non-Jewish organizations in Israel that enjoy good relations with the Israeli government. For instance, there is the Christian embassy in Jerusalem and the Islamic Waqf (which has control over the temple mount in Jerusalem), to name a few.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and the center of Judaism. When the city was unified in 1967 we stayed true to our declaration and kept all the other religious institutions intact out of respect for them. We acknowledge that Jerusalem is an important religious center for Muslims and Christians and we act accordingly.

The other religions freely practice their rites without any interference from Israel. A good example of this is the annual midnight mass in Bethlehem on Christmas and the Palm Sunday procession on Easter in Jerusalem.

There are special commitees set up in order to look into different aspects of the other religions and Israel makes very sure not to disturb the delicate balance and harmony that prevails between everyone.

As for athiests, as I mentioned in my previous post, if a person wants to get married, divorced, etc., he must go according to the orthodox rites of Judaism if he wants his marriage (especially his children) recognized by the state.

I'll give you another example: Israel has a flourishing gay community and there are two festivals which are celebrated each year. The annual "Gay pride" parade and the "Love Parade" (much like the one held in Germany and around the world). These parades are held in Tel-Aviv only. An attempt to hold a "Gay pride" parade in Jerusalem was met with fierce resistance from the orthodox rabbis because of the religious character of Jerusalem (and, of course, the bible forbids homosexuality).

So for athiests, there is a civil rights movement in Israel that helps protect their rights against religious "coersion".
Thank you for your response.

I have to say I am a little bit concerned to hear that non-believers can't get married in the eyes of the state.

Having said based on what I have read the protections afforded to non-Jews in Israel are a lot better than those afforded to non-Muslims in most Muslim countries.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 07:57 PM   #11
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:10 AM
^ I believe it's the case (though I could certainly be wrong) that quite a few Israelis who don't want to go through the Orthodox marriage procedures, for whatever reasons, travel outside of Israel to get a civil marriage, which *I think?* is recognized by the state (though not by the rabbinate of course).

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
The prevailing religious law in Israel is according to the Orthodox stream of Judaism, with very little leniency on the part of the Rabbinate (the Jewish version of the supreme court) in cases of other streams - the Conservative and Reform.
At the risk of being nosy, where if anywhere do you fall on this spectrum?
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 01-29-2006, 10:44 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 06:10 PM
How do you feel about the Jewish diaspora, particularly the Americans?

I ask because I work with quite a few Israeli Jews and they hold the American Jews in the highest contempt for various things, like dictating policy via a remote control and pushing a hardline agenda without having to live with the actual consequences day-to-day.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 01-29-2006, 10:44 PM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,472
Local Time: 06:10 PM
what do you think individual israeli citizens can do in their day-to-day lives to make the region more peaceful?

what, if any, legal rights do gay couples have?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 01-31-2006, 06:14 AM   #14
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Have you seen Munich? If so, what did you think?
I have not seen the movie yet but I remember watching the events unfold as they happened.

I was 12 years old in 1972 when Israel suffered through two major terrorist attacks - the first one was in May (I believe) when a Japanese terrorist named Kozo Akamoto opened fire inside the terminal at Lod (later renamed Ben-Gurion) airport, killing over 20 people.
Kozo Akamoto was later released in one of Israel's controversial prisoner exchange deals.

Later that year, in September, the Munich attack took place. I remember watching the events unfold and felt utter shock and horror when the hostages were murdered. The entire country was sent into a tailspin.

I will read some more about about this event before I see the movie and then I will give you an educated reply.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:10 AM   #15
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal


Just hypothetically, what if this person was born to a Jewish mother who had been converted from Christianity by a reform rabbi and later converted back to Christianity?



Thanks for all the info so far, btw, I will try to think of a better question later...
In any case, the person in question would not be recognized by the Rabbinate as being Jewish because the mother was converted by a Reform Rabbi and not an orthodox rabbi.

So to answer your question, this particular person is not considered Jewish by the Jewish laws of the state, unless the mother had been converted again by an orthodox rabbi.
__________________

__________________
AchtungBono is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com