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Old 07-24-2006, 08:07 AM   #31
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Originally posted by maycocksean
Tough decisions, no doubt. Again, as Yolland said you'd probably have more insight than I would since my wife and I don't have kids yet. But of course, if you know me, I have an opinion anyway. I know it's hard for American kids to grow up outside of America and then return and deal with adjusting, but just because something's hard and sometimes painful doesn't make it bad. I also think it's hard for kids who are raised in a mixed-race home (I did, and my children will too, as I am black and my wife is white). But in both cases, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Both my wife and I WANT our kids to spend some time outside of the U.S. during their childhoods. We want them to have a broader perspective of the world, and while that may make them a little "different" compared to kids born and raised in America, I think in the long run, they will benefit. (You can confirm or deny whether this is so, I suppose).
I definitely feel that the benefits outweigh any disadvantages. Looking back I wouldn't choose to have been brought up exclusively in the U.S. I know it sounds horribly arrogant, but I love the fact that I have seen so much of the world and that my mind was broadened at a very young age. I love speaking multiple languages, having friends from every continent and being able to put a backstory to the news headlines. What is hard about it of course is in trying to relate to Americans who have never been outside of their city, state, country and whose perceptions of the outside world have been gleaned from Hollywood movies and the propaganda that masquerades as "news" here. If I had a dime for how many times I have been asked questions to the effect of do I feel deprived for having not grown up in the "greatest country in the world" etc. I would be quite rich. To be quite honest, I hate living in America. I like to visit and I can't say I don't enjoy indulging in the luxuries that are taken for granted here, but I never feel at home knowing what else is going on in the wider world. So perhaps that's a good thing or a bad thing. In a way, there would be those that blame my parents for "ruining" me so that I'll never be able to live comfortably in what is supposedly my "home" country. However, I think that TCKs are uniquely prepared for the next century, that of globalization and internationalization. We tend to think of ourselves as world citizens and not define ourselves narrowly by pre-conceived notions of nation-state identity.

In your case, your children will be even more well-equiped to have a diverse view of the world and of society because as you've mentioned, they'll be living in a mixed race family. I think this is great although I can imagine it will bring its own set of challenges. I can relate in a way because my serious boyfriend is black and I am white; we also have a mixed religious background in that he is Muslim and I am Christian. If we stay together longterm we'd like to live and work in the 3rd world doing aid work, etc. Any children we have are going to be multi-cultural, multi-lingual, etc. I'm jealous for them. lol.

In summary, I think living overseas and giving your children a cross-cultural immersion experience during their formative years is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. It will give your children a competitive advantage for their future lives and careers because in the world we live in being able to communicate and work in a multi-cultural world is essential. And besides it will also give them awesome memories and stories to carry with them the rest of their lives.
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Old 07-24-2006, 02:48 PM   #32
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I definitely feel that the benefits outweigh any disadvantages. Looking back I wouldn't choose to have been brought up exclusively in the U.S. I know it sounds horribly arrogant, but I love the fact that I have seen so much of the world and that my mind was broadened at a very young age. I love speaking multiple languages, having friends from every continent and being able to put a backstory to the news headlines. What is hard about it of course is in trying to relate to Americans who have never been outside of their city, state, country and whose perceptions of the outside world have been gleaned from Hollywood movies and the propaganda that masquerades as "news" here. If I had a dime for how many times I have been asked questions to the effect of do I feel deprived for having not grown up in the "greatest country in the world" etc. I would be quite rich. To be quite honest, I hate living in America. I like to visit and I can't say I don't enjoy indulging in the luxuries that are taken for granted here, but I never feel at home knowing what else is going on in the wider world. So perhaps that's a good thing or a bad thing. In a way, there would be those that blame my parents for "ruining" me so that I'll never be able to live comfortably in what is supposedly my "home" country. However, I think that TCKs are uniquely prepared for the next century, that of globalization and internationalization. We tend to think of ourselves as world citizens and not define ourselves narrowly by pre-conceived notions of nation-state identity.

In your case, your children will be even more well-equiped to have a diverse view of the world and of society because as you've mentioned, they'll be living in a mixed race family. I think this is great although I can imagine it will bring its own set of challenges. I can relate in a way because my serious boyfriend is black and I am white; we also have a mixed religious background in that he is Muslim and I am Christian. If we stay together longterm we'd like to live and work in the 3rd world doing aid work, etc. Any children we have are going to be multi-cultural, multi-lingual, etc. I'm jealous for them. lol.

In summary, I think living overseas and giving your children a cross-cultural immersion experience during their formative years is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. It will give your children a competitive advantage for their future lives and careers because in the world we live in being able to communicate and work in a multi-cultural world is essential. And besides it will also give them awesome memories and stories to carry with them the rest of their lives.
I agree heartily with everything you've said, sula! And best of luck to you and your boyfriend. My wife and I are always big cheerleaders for fellow "mixed" couples, especially in the States where we're still relatively rare (raised fist of solidarity). And Christian/Muslim? Wow,you guys are like the poster children for world peace!

Thanks again for your insights.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:51 PM   #33
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I heard that in South Korea, the christian community is growing really quick and big, is it? Never thought history could lead to today's conditioin.
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:41 AM   #34
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What church do you work for?
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:57 PM   #35
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What church do you work for?
Me? I work for the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:00 PM   #36
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I heard that in South Korea, the christian community is growing really quick and big, is it? Never thought history could lead to today's conditioin.
Yes, it is. From what I understand the world's largest single Christian congregation in South Korea. As far as why, I'm not sure. . .

I know Christianity is spreading rapidly in China also--though really beliefs of all kinds are gaining a foothold there from what Iv'e heard. What I find interesting is talking to some of the younger generation of Chinese (we have a lot of Chinese working here in Saipan in the garment factories) and they don't believe in God, but there's not the kind inherent hostility towards faith that one tends to find in atheists from western countries.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:47 PM   #37
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Yes, it is. From what I understand the world's largest single Christian congregation in South Korea. As far as why, I'm not sure. . .

I know Christianity is spreading rapidly in China also--though really beliefs of all kinds are gaining a foothold there from what Iv'e heard. What I find interesting is talking to some of the younger generation of Chinese (we have a lot of Chinese working here in Saipan in the garment factories) and they don't believe in God, but there's not the kind inherent hostility towards faith that one tends to find in atheists from western countries.
thanks for your answer. I only heard about Christianity being popular in S. Korea, and you confirmed it.

As for the answer why, I actually know it somehow...

I don't really think christianity was as popular among the young generation in China, as it in S. Korea. The people I know who believe in God (Catholic or protestant) generally are elder generation and have very low education level. And it is a fact that Chinese christian community, especially Roman Catholic, is independent from Vatican, due to the historical problem and culture issues.

Both Chinese and Japanese cultures highly value harmony, and be able to bend is a virtue, therefore unless you got on their nerves, they usually won't start the fight first.

Tell you one of the extreme example, since you work in this "industry", better understanding benefits everyone:

My highschool English teacher told us once, his uni classmates immigrated to America, but couldn't find better job than washing dishes in restaurants. His language skill was excellent, therefore he took courses then become a priest. When he was in holiday, he went back to his hometown and my teacher had a dinner with him and other friends. They asked about his life and his faith of course. He told them "drug dealers don't take drugs, because he know it very well"; he loves his job because this job magnificently increased his social position, in the community, people respect him, love him, and extremely nice to his family; and he could make enough money to feed his wife and four kids by just making speeches and talk to people, which he loves to do.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:07 AM   #38
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thanks for your answer. I only heard about Christianity being popular in S. Korea, and you confirmed it.

As for the answer why, I actually know it somehow...

I don't really think christianity was as popular among the young generation in China, as it in S. Korea. The people I know who believe in God (Catholic or protestant) generally are elder generation and have very low education level. And it is a fact that Chinese christian community, especially Roman Catholic, is independent from Vatican, due to the historical problem and culture issues.
I couldn't really comment on this without entering into some serious speculating. I did read an article in TIME magazine recently about how one author's book on the Analects of Confucius is hugely popular in China right now. The article seemed to imply that there is a sense of dissatisfaction with the extremely materialistic its-all-about-the-money values that seemed to be holding sway in modern, urban China. The Chinese kids I teach seem to be pretty much neutral on the subject of religion, maybe a little curious, but otherwise not extremely positive or negative one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

Both Chinese and Japanese cultures highly value harmony, and be able to bend is a virtue, therefore unless you got on their nerves, they usually won't start the fight first.
One thing that's kind of interesting is that during the 17th century Christianity made huge inroads in Japan. So much so, in fact that the Tokugawa shogunate freaked out and banned all missionary activity, persecuted Japanese Christians, and pretty much shut Japan off from the outside world for the next 300 years or so. The thing is, it seems like Christianity has never really "recovered" there, as even today Christianity in Japan is a minor faith, at least compared to what it is in places like South Korea.

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

Tell you one of the extreme example, since you work in this "industry", better understanding benefits everyone:

My highschool English teacher told us once, his uni classmates immigrated to America, but couldn't find better job than washing dishes in restaurants. His language skill was excellent, therefore he took courses then become a priest. When he was in holiday, he went back to his hometown and my teacher had a dinner with him and other friends. They asked about his life and his faith of course. He told them "drug dealers don't take drugs, because he know it very well"; he loves his job because this job magnificently increased his social position, in the community, people respect him, love him, and extremely nice to his family; and he could make enough money to feed his wife and four kids by just making speeches and talk to people, which he loves to do.
"industry". . .I've never heard it put quite that way

If I understand your post correctly, I also knew a pastor like the priest you described. Actually my wife knew him and told me. . .He basically doesn't actually believe any of what he teaches/preaches but like the priest you mentioned, I suppose he likes the respect, authority, or whatever it gives him. But I can assure you that such people are pretty rare, at least in my experience.
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:39 AM   #39
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I couldn't really comment on this without entering into some serious speculating. I did read an article in TIME magazine recently about how one author's book on the Analects of Confucius is hugely popular in China right now. The article seemed to imply that there is a sense of dissatisfaction with the extremely materialistic its-all-about-the-money values that seemed to be holding sway in modern, urban China. The Chinese kids I teach seem to be pretty much neutral on the subject of religion, maybe a little curious, but otherwise not extremely positive or negative one way or the other.
Well, I guess the artical statement is correct, however, I'd suggest you see it without the glasses of being a westerner.

Confucius is not a GOD or religious leader in any sense (which a lof of westerners seems got confused on this). And the Analects of Confucius certainly is not a bible like book. The popularity is not only on this classical book, but other books as well, just to name a few: the Art of War, Thirty-Six Stratagems, Meng Zi, Zhuang Zi, Zhou Yi, Shi Jing...etc. They always enjoyed the popularity among people. And the publishers loves these book, because they could print them in anyway they want and never need to worry about the copyright, nor loyalty.

The Chinese name of China, actually means the center of the world. And on one of the traditional classic books, people wrote something like: the land below the heaven is beloned to the kindom, and the people live on it serves the king. And that's basically how traditionally people are confidence about their country and the emperors even called it the kingdom of heaven, because they are titled the son of the heaven.

Til today, this value somehow, haven't completely fade out, yet.

Zen could be a perfect example how traditional culture could impact and compeletely transfer a religion (Buddhism) fit in to the social value of Chinese culture, and lose the structural form of that religion.

It's still surprise me sometimes when look back the end of 19th century, Christianity (Catholic) was firstly brought in by western invaders, but only few decades later, the Chinese church broke up with Vatican and denied all the right Vatican might have. And almost 100 years passed by the frozen relationship still haven't shaken even a tiny little bit.

Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

One thing that's kind of interesting is that during the 17th century Christianity made huge inroads in Japan. So much so, in fact that the Tokugawa shogunate freaked out and banned all missionary activity, persecuted Japanese Christians, and pretty much shut Japan off from the outside world for the next 300 years or so. The thing is, it seems like Christianity has never really "recovered" there, as even today Christianity in Japan is a minor faith, at least compared to what it is in places like South Korea.
Because, Mikado in Japanese have a level of respect from the people as a GOD. And it's impossible for him to accept the existance of Christian GOD. But Buddha? Yes. It's the matter how the religion is structured, as well as the way it was "marketed".

Besides, for hundred of years, Korea emperors only have a position of a liegeman when he meets Chinese emporers, and for this reason, S. Korean extremely now having a de-chineselization movement across the country. Seoul, capital city of S.Korea, the real meaning of this city's name is Han's city. Han is the main ethnic group in China, and generally be considered as the real native chinese. The river in this city got a name means Han's river.... Now they started to change the name, based on the English name of the city.

Korean language itself is a sound based language, representing meaning of Chinese characters. One of my Korean classmates told me that sometimes they have to put the Chinese characters in brackets within sentence to clearify some of the sound confusions.

In order to have a more independent culture, they embraced western culture, together with christian religion, eagerly.


Quote:
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"industry". . .I've never heard it put quite that way

If I understand your post correctly, I also knew a pastor like the priest you described. Actually my wife knew him and told me. . .He basically doesn't actually believe any of what he teaches/preaches but like the priest you mentioned, I suppose he likes the respect, authority, or whatever it gives him. But I can assure you that such people are pretty rare, at least in my experience.
Glade to know it's an international behaviour.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:12 AM   #40
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Glade to know it's an international behaviour.
Well, actually. . .no. . .in fact such behavior is very rare in Christianity and I said as much.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:45 AM   #41
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Well, actually. . .no. . .in fact such behavior is very rare in Christianity and I said as much.
I know, I just saying that even the number isn't big, but we do get them in different countries and culture groups.
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