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Old 03-25-2005, 08:35 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm glad you started this thread. I think Christians gain a far deeper understanding of their faith by knowing the Jewish roots. My wife wishes she was a Messianic Jew so she would have that deep background.


What traditions of the Jewish faith do you miss the most?

What from the Jewish faith do you think Christians should learn more about (i.e., participate in a Sedar dinner)?

I understand. I tend to bristle when I hear people call themselves NT Christians. There is SO much deeper meaning and understanding to be drawn from the Old Testament, there is a connection. Even being able to explain the whole signifigance of Christ can be strengthened by understanding the whole purpose behind covenants and the progressive way God began to show Himself to His people that began in the OT and fully matures in the New Testament.

It's interesting at my church because people seem to really respond and appreciate my Jewish heritage. I always thought it was silly until it was better explained to me. Since becoming a Christian I've beome more proud of that heritage....surprising as it may sound. I was always sort of embarassed at it before in a way because of the responses I got from people growing up.

I really don't find that I miss that much Jewish traditions because I feel the ones I'm familiar with I haven't had to give up. For example, one thing that I would definetly still plan on doing is having a wedding with both Christian and Jewish traditions in it....If and when I ever get married that is.

I want to explain that my church is a 'normal' Church...I know that there are some Jewish temples that have messianic services. So in answer to your last question, I think Christians should definetly try to understand the OT more, I know some churches do this. And I also think that Christians could really benefit from celebrating Passover sedar dinners....The Last Supper was a Sedar dinner after all. Like I explained in my story in my previous post--there is alot of symbolism and spirtuality that a Christian with no Jewish heritage could definetly benefit from. My church actually sponsors a Sedar dinner while my pastor will invite staff members to his house.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:37 PM   #17
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Originally posted by deep


It is not too late.

We do have "Freedom of Religion"
and Association.

True...But I feel he was most likely talking about the heritage and cultural identity of Jews. It's alot more than a spirituality/religious choice.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:55 PM   #18
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Originally posted by starsgoblue
To be honest, that began to change for me at my first U2 concert....I kid you not. (I can post an essay I wrote about this experience if anyone wants me to)
Yes, please! I'd love to read it. I've only been to one U2 concert (Joshua Tree), but I definitely felt the Spirit there, and I've heard a lot of people talk about similar experiences.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:59 PM   #19
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Re: Ask The Messianic Jew....

Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
Yea, I'm hitching myself to the bandwagon.

I was born & raised as a secular Jew and came into Christian beliefs on my own. Jewishness is as much a culture as it is a belief system and I still retain that and feel it isn't such a strech for me to believe in the NT as much as the OT.

Fire away.

I loved your book (Girl Meets God), I'll have you sign next time I'm in your neck of the woods
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:12 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Sue DeNym


Yes, please! I'd love to read it. I've only been to one U2 concert (Joshua Tree), but I definitely felt the Spirit there, and I've heard a lot of people talk about similar experiences.
This is a journal entry I wrote about a month ago:

My New Tattoo Is Itchy
And it's driving me crazy right now, as I am sitting here trying to ignore it. I'm hoping to get a pic uploaded of it soon. I got it a week ago today. It's a version of the Elevaton suitcase on my right ankle. Yes, I got a symbol from last tour tattooed on myself now. To be honest, I felt it was the best time to do it. With all the excitement surrounding the Vertigo Tour getting this tattoo has really reminded me of why U2 means as much to me as they do and all I have to look forward to this time around.

I can remember the one and only one Elevation concert I got to go to. Section 104. Row H. Seat 1. At that point in time, I was 21 and this was my first U2 concert despite having been a fan for as long as I could remember. I can remember how excited I was. This was going to be my first U2 concert....I would never have another first U2 concert experience again! That one concert changed my life in so many ways.

People may look at me strangely when I tell them that U2 has changed my life. At times I know it might sound odd...but so many things changed for me after that concert.

This concert was a little over a month after 9/11. It was a very dark time. This concert was actually a chance to smile again and be caught up in something bigger than yourself.
I can still remember very vividly how Bono cradled an American flag, without pretense, and passionatley kissed it.
I can remember also at that concert how he ran off the stage to climb into the rafters to reach a 9 year old girl in the 200 section, singing to her while hanging off the rail with one arm. He asked her name, pointing the microphone towards her face, and the young girl girl shouted "I love you!" in her excitement. As the crowd cheered, Bono, still hanging off the balcony said, "I wanna say a prayer. A prayer that these times we're living in will pass quickly and America and Europe will be safe. And that the rest of the world doesn't have to live on less than a dollar a day." It was then Bono began chanting "40"...singing "How long to sing this song". Just thinking about it gives me goosebumps.

I also changed my mind about the existence of God at that concert. For the longest time I wanted to believe in God. I could accept the idea of God but it was religiousity, or man-made images of God, that I couldn't swallow. I had seen to many bad things done in God's name. I couldn't seem to find a balance between the two so I just threw my hands up.

Seeing the bullfight of Until The End Of The World acted out on stage suddenly struck me. I could see the own dichotomy raging in my heart--the need to choose between darkness and light. Everyone always tends to villanize Judas, when you think about it how different was he from Peter, a man who denied Jesus three times and warmed his hands over the fire beside the Roman soldiers? There was one difference: Peter acknowledged his pride. It was then I realized that I had been arrogant in telling God I didn't need Him.

Bono paraphrased Psalm 116 at the intro to Streets. "What can I give back to God for the blessings he's poured out on me?" Tears sprang to my eyes at seeing this man, who I had always seen as larger than life, being humble and raising his hands in supplication. "I'll complete what I promised God I'd do, and I'll do it together with his people" It was then the house lights went on and I could see the thousands of fans around me. I was seeing them all in a new way, almost as family...and in that moment I felt we all were. I felt as though my heart had exploded with light. The sense of joy that suddenly washed over me was so powerful I felt as though I would be consumed if it continued.

Finally during the finale of "Walk On" everything just came to a sense of convergence. I can't tell you how many times I had heard this song before that night but it was only then that it's true meaning smacked me in the face and left a permament welt. "You're packing a suitcase for a place none of us has been," Bono sang, his eyes closed and face tilted upward. "A place that has to be believed to be seen." For the first time, I believed.


I also gained another kind of faith that night. Faith in myself. I felt I finally had the faith to believe there was things I could change in my life, the most dramatic being leaving a bad relationship.

I realized it was not enough to be morally convicted about things going on in the world, that you had to act upon those convictions. I began to actively care about philanthropic endeavors such as the AIDS crisis in Africa. I have even changed my major because of that concert...from English to International Relations & Diplomacy.


So, my tattoo...the Elevation suitcase...a week ago today. I am sitting here looking at it right now. I am reminded of how much I have "walked on" since the last concert, I am reminded of all my heartaches I have "left behind", and I am confident and feel strenghtened about my beautiful days ahead. I can see where I have come from and I can see where I am going by looking at my ankle....

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Old 03-25-2005, 09:14 PM   #21
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Re: Re: Ask The Messianic Jew....

Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton



I loved your book (Girl Meets God), I'll have you sign next time I'm in your neck of the woods

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Old 03-25-2005, 09:28 PM   #22
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did you really write a book?
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
did you really write a book?

Ha ha ha

No she didn't. But there is a wonderful book out right now (again titled Girl Meets God) written by a woman who made a similar conversion.
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:17 AM   #24
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Re: Re: Re: Ask The Messianic Jew....

Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue




ahhh come one peaches, I was joshing....
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Old 03-26-2005, 09:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
The thing with Jews is that it is as much a cultural thing as it can be a religious.
Yeah, but that 'cultural thing' doesn't include converting to Christianity, which from the standpoint of Jewish law is exactly what you did. None of the major Jewish denominations recognize 'Messianic Judaism' as a legitimate form of Jewish religious practice (though they recognize its followers as ethnic Jews--just as they do for Jewish atheists, Ju-Bus, etc.)

By describing yourself as a 'Messianic Jew' whose Christianity is grounded in Jewish religious practice, you are specifically claiming religious Jews as your own people. Yet religious Jews do not recognize you as one of their own (and neither did you, until you converted)--so, you wind up having to fall back on the secular, ethnic definition of 'Jew' to justify the title. At which point you assume for yourself the right to redefine what constitutes Jewish religious practice! A bit contradictory, isn't it???
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Old 03-26-2005, 10:21 PM   #26
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Do you believe that Jews who don't accept Jesus as the Messiah will go to Hell?
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:52 AM   #27
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Personally, I think the Gospels evidenced a revolutionary philosophy that questioned much of the concepts of the Old Testament or if not questioning the rituals, rules themselves, then pushing people into thinking about them a new way. Basically, to paraphrase, that the rules were made for the people and not the people for the rules. A philosophy that said the rules should never overshadow what they were meant to give.

Healing on the Sabbath.
Hanging out with the unclean, sinners.
The statement on kosher that it was less important what you put into your mouth than what came out of it.
Much of the Ten Commandments was "Thou shalt not..." (pretty
good rules, too). Much of the Christ commandments were "Thou Shalt....Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself, etc.
The inclusion of women as equals.
The Turning of the Other Cheek compared to the warlike Deity of the past.

I don't think the New Testament (Gospels, here only, I'm not a huge Paul fan) was a continuation of the Old Testament, but a challenge to it, a respectful challenge to it.

That being said, there is a strong correlation between practioners of both, and they could learn much from each other. There are beautiful rituals and philosophies on both sides and the intertwining of them cannot help but to lead to a better understanding of our own beliefs.
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:57 AM   #28
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Oops, forgot to ask a question here and I am curious.

Do you find as a Messianic Jew, it is easier to question Christian teachings since you did not have them drilled into your head from childhood? Do you find yourself challenging more or less? Also, how do you define a normal church since there are so many offshoots?
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland


Yeah, but that 'cultural thing' doesn't include converting to Christianity, which from the standpoint of Jewish law is exactly what you did. None of the major Jewish denominations recognize 'Messianic Judaism' as a legitimate form of Jewish religious practice (though they recognize its followers as ethnic Jews--just as they do for Jewish atheists, Ju-Bus, etc.)

By describing yourself as a 'Messianic Jew' whose Christianity is grounded in Jewish religious practice, you are specifically claiming religious Jews as your own people. Yet religious Jews do not recognize you as one of their own (and neither did you, until you converted)--so, you wind up having to fall back on the secular, ethnic definition of 'Jew' to justify the title. At which point you assume for yourself the right to redefine what constitutes Jewish religious practice! A bit contradictory, isn't it???

Call me whatever you want. I am Jewish, that's my heritage as a ethnicity. My family is what you called Ashkenazi Jews, from the Eastern European area. There's more to being Jewish than just saying where you choose to worship. I find your anger at me calling myself that surprising. I "assume the right" to define what constitutes Jewish religious practice?! Why would you say that? I don't think I specially said my Christianity is "grounded" in Jewish practice either.

By making this post I was speaking as a person who does have a Jewish background who converted to Christianity. I consider all Jews to be a part of my heritage, whether they're religious, atheist, secular, or whatever! I celebrate Jewish holidays and Christian ones--what's so wrong with that? I can still absolutley consider myself both Jewish and a Christian. I don't think it's contradictory at all. And if you do, that's fine...spirituality is never cut and dry.
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Old 03-27-2005, 05:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Do you believe that Jews who don't accept Jesus as the Messiah will go to Hell?

Absolutley not. I also don't think things such as homosexuality is sending anyone there either. I probably have liberal views about the concept of hell.
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