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Old 03-25-2005, 08:07 PM   #31
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If weapons of mass destruction were a reason and not the reason, why didn't Bush attack Iraq in 2001 or 2002? Was Saddam not a brutal dictator during those years? Why didn't Bush attack Cuba, they have an equally oppresive dictator? Yeah, peace and liberty will stop radical Islam. Yeah okay. Like Muslims aren't gonna hate America when you attack the countries that are mainly Islamic. This Iraq war has created WAY more terrorists than it's killed. I learned in a world history class that the Koran calls Muslims to fight the enemy only if they are attacked by the enemy. Wow....maybe some Muslims who weren't terrorists before construe this war as an attack on them?
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:10 PM   #32
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Originally posted by unosdostres14
Why didn't Bush attack Cuba, they have an equally oppresive dictator?
there's no oil in it.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
If weapons of mass destruction were a reason and not the reason, why didn't Bush attack Iraq in 2001 or 2002? Was Saddam not a brutal dictator during those years? Why didn't Bush attack Cuba, they have an equally oppresive dictator? Yeah, peace and liberty will stop radical Islam. Yeah okay. Like Muslims aren't gonna hate America when you attack the countries that are mainly Islamic. This Iraq war has created WAY more terrorists than it's killed. I learned in a world history class that the Koran calls Muslims to fight the enemy only if they are attacked by the enemy. Wow....maybe some Muslims who weren't terrorists before construe this war as an attack on them?
No Iraq is not about killing terrorists, it is about combating an ideology. While the initial invasion may have sparked some more radical elements the long term benefits more than make up for this. This is not a situation were you can wait around for things to change on their own, change had to have been initiated, it has been done already and the sacrifice for this will be worth it.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:25 PM   #34
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No Iraq is not about killing terrorists, it is about combating an ideology. While the initial invasion may have sparked some more radical elements the long term benefits more than make up for this. This is not a situation were you can wait around for things to change on their own, change had to have been initiated, it has been done already and the sacrifice for this will be worth it.
What you're not understanding is that children in Iraq are growing up hating America. In 15-20 years there are going to be more terrorists than ever. There are no long term benefits to America in this. Sure, Iraq now has a leader that won't kill as many people unnecessarily. Was that worth the deaths of 1,500 soldiers and the rise of terrorism in America. Plus, more Iraqi civilians have died from this war than Saddam killed in decades. You are saying this is fighting an ideology. Okay, the US did remove a dictatorship and instill a democracy. Are they going to do that to every country in the Middle East? And then move on to China and destroy Communism? And then go down South to Cuba and many of those Central/South American countries with military dictatorships? This ideology cannnot be just stopped. You've been fooled into thinking this war is about spreading democracy. Why did they pick Iraq then. Maybe it's because God buried lots of treasure underneath them. O I L. More Americans will die in the future because of the terrorism that this unnecessary war has caused.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:31 PM   #35
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there's no oil in it.
UGH....why couldn't God bury his oil in friendlier places so that us Americans could gobble it up easier!
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:35 PM   #36
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Originally posted by unosdostres14


UGH....why couldn't God bury his oil in friendlier places so that us Americans could gobble it up easier!
it's not just a matter of us gobbling it up...
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:49 PM   #37
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What you're not understanding is that children in Iraq are growing up hating America.
No, you are just failing to see that Iraqi kids were already being raised to loath America ~ who state TV and education taught was the cause of all Iraq's problems. The next generation will not be raised on such propaganda and it will certainly yield a better future for them. Regardless it is not the Iraqi citizen that makes a terrorist, they may have the greatest aspirations of destruction but without the means to achieve that end they are no threat.
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Sure, Iraq now has a leader that won't kill as many people unnecessarily. Was that worth the deaths of 1,500 soldiers and the rise of terrorism in America.
Um, so far I have not seen a rise in terrorism in the US anymore than before the invasion of Iraq. The value of those soldiers sacrifice is that in the long run radical Islam may be defeated in the Middle East by the adoption of liberal democratic principles of governance ultimately marginalising the extremists.

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Plus, more Iraqi civilians have died from this war than Saddam killed in decades.
Downright lie ~ either you are ignorant of how many people Saddam killed or you simply deny that he killed them. Saddam Hussein murdered at least 1 million people while he ruled Iraq. The casualties resulting from the war have been put at between 17,000 and 19,600 by the anti-war iraqbodycount.net (the 100,000 figure by the Lancet survey was flawed, using epidemiology methodology to look at war casualties gave flawed results with a 95% CI of between 8,000 and 198,000 of which they just split the difference).

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Okay, the US did remove a dictatorship and instill a democracy. Are they going to do that to every country in the Middle East?
No, the entire point of invading Iraq a country of mixed religions and ethnicities is that you can intitate broader democratic change without having to invade every other country.

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And then move on to China and destroy Communism?
Chinese communism is already dead, free market economics slayed it and the emergence of the middle class will bring about greater freedoms.

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And then go down South to Cuba and many of those Central/South American countries with military dictatorships?
Castro will die eventually, Cuba will change. Latin American dictators are a relic of the cold war and should not be maintained.

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This ideology cannnot be just stopped. You've been fooled into thinking this war is about spreading democracy.
Really? I suppose I am just a real dupe, I should have known better that this has nothing to do with democracy. Radical Islam is unstoppable and cannot be defeated ~ bend over in the name of dhimmitude and uphold the status quo. Fuck the Kurds! No Blood for Oil! ~ so very easy to ally yourself to the status quo, it seems like progress and reform are values that "liberals" pride at home but not abroad.

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Why did they pick Iraq then. Maybe it's because God buried lots of treasure underneath them. O I L.
God has nothing to do with the formation of oil, it is geological processes . As for the oil being the reason then consider why the US didn't just push for sanctions to be lifted against the regime and buy the oil cheaply from Saddam? surely costs a lot less political capital and money than an expensive war right? it would be a win win situation making the dictator come in from the cold. But they didn't do that did they, they went about it the hard way and we are starting to see the benefits of that course of action now.

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More Americans will die in the future because of the terrorism that this unnecessary war has caused.
This has not occured yet and it has been two years since the invasion, this is not a fact but mere speculation, it adds nothing to your argument. On my side we have had elections in Iraq, Saddam captured ~ Iraqi Baathism wiped out, the capture and killing of terrorist leaders around the globe, the exposition of links between Islamist groups and front organisations and the beginings of democratic reforms throughout the Arab and Persian world ~ right now coming to a head in Lebanon. If no action was taken the ME would remain the same, Saddam would be pushing to get sanctions removed and remaining a wild card in the region. US threats would be hollow and cheap and no action would be taken when they pushed. The "arab street" would be just as pissed off at America for supporting Israel and you would still have many individuals plotting on how to destroy you. Oh and over 100,000 Iraqi's would have been killed because of shortages from sanctions ~ you know where the UN officials are bribed and the money runs to the regime while the medicines and food are not getting to the people who really need it, that long drawn out bleeding of Iraq through oil for food pioneered under the Clinton Administration much to the delight of both the baathists and UN.
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:04 AM   #38
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Originally posted by BonosSaint

WHY ARE LIBERALS EMBARASSED TO BE CALLED LIBERALS?
Now watch what you say or they’ll be calling you fanatical, a criminal,
a RADICAL LIBERAL.

Won’t you sign up your name, we’d like to feel you’re
Acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable!
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Old 03-26-2005, 01:38 PM   #39
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Originally posted by sallycinnamon78


Now watch what you say or they’ll be calling you fanatical, a criminal,
a RADICAL LIBERAL.

Won’t you sign up your name, we’d like to feel you’re
Acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable!

Hmm. Fanatical? Nah
Radical? Maybe, but in thought, not in action.
Criminal? That sounds cool. OK, we'll take that one.
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