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Old 02-06-2005, 06:41 PM   #121
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great thread, Irvine.

your story about your friend is heartbreaking.

as a huge bookworm, i'm curious to know: what's your favourite book(s)? what book has had the most influence on you?
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Old 02-06-2005, 08:29 PM   #122
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How long were you a swimmer?

When did you start? What took you out of the sport?

Are swim meets as boring for swimmers as they are for the parents?

i started swimming at the age of 7 and continued until my senior year of college. swimming in college was great until my junior year, when i found myself being pulled in too many directions at once, getting very serious about school and getting heavily involved with campus government-type stuff. swimming became less important, and then i started writing a thesis ... and then that was it. am thinking about finding a master's program.

no. swim meets are great when you're a participant -- races can be nervewracking, but you get to see all your friends, especially your friends on other teams from all over the state. and then everyone goes out to Dairy Queen afterwards. i loved them, but i fully appreciate how boring it can be for parents. i grew up in CT, and my parents did make the 5 hour drive down to Princeton, NJ to watch me swim the 200 fly (all 2 minutes 5 seconds of it) when i made Zones when i was 14. that's quite a ratio 5 hours travel : 2 minutes swimming.

it's a great, great sport. honest, clean, and you can finish dead last, but if you improve your time, everyone's happy.

and no East German judges
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Old 02-06-2005, 08:34 PM   #123
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great thread, Irvine.

your story about your friend is heartbreaking.

as a huge bookworm, i'm curious to know: what's your favourite book(s)? what book has had the most influence on you?

much thanks. as for my story, it was one of those "i can't believe this is actually happening to me" things. it was a very surreal few days, and since i barely knew this person, it wasn't like i experienced any sense of loss. but it deeply, deeply shook me.

as for books, i was an English major, and a pretty voracious reader as well, especially as a child.

favorite books: Trainspotting, All the King's Men, Atonement. Lolita.

others: Gravity's Rainbow, Remains of the Day, The Corrections, The Kite Runner, The Quiet American, The Great Gatsby, All the Little Live Things, The Crying of Lot 49, Catch 22, White Noise, Virtually Normal.

there's more i'm sure, but i'm currently away from my bookshelf and can't think of any others off the top of my head.

as for influence ... let me think about that one. recently, few books have had the impact that _Atonement_ did, as the ending reduced me to tears. (don't think that had happened since i was 9 and reading _where the red fern grows_). and _All the King's Men_ was something of a bible for me when we read it my senior year in high school. Chapter 7, the chapter about how he fell in love with Anne Stanton, is almost beyond belief.

Lolita has a lot to do with my outlook on life, Nabokov's belief that people cannot be contained by words or paragraphs and how understanding always eludes us, slipping through our fingertips.

Trainspotting was huge for me as well -- i wrote my thesis on this, and i basically posited that the novel was about taking inherited identities (in the novel, Scottishness, but it could be anything) are based upon romanticized, idealized notions of a re-imagined past, and that for anyone to wrap his identity around such a thing (like being Scottish, or being an American, or being gay) is buying into the terms and definitions of the colonizer/oppressor. liberation can only be achieved by embracing post-modernity and realizing that identity is self-created.

it took me 90 pages to say this. and it was more coherent 5 years ago.

i also find the final paragraphs of Gatsby to be an astonishing summation of the history of the United States. paraphrased, the whole "this great green breast of a new world when man was faced, for the last time in hisotry, something commensurate to his capacity for wonder. and so we beat on, boats upstream, born ceaselessly into the past."

gives me chills.
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Old 02-07-2005, 04:35 AM   #124
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I thought I might ask..if you're ever interested in getting married some day, and you are able to, what kind of man would you want to marry? What would you want/ expect from marriage?

Sorry if someone has already asked this, I couldn't remember
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Old 02-07-2005, 12:55 PM   #125
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...If it doesn't make your heart flutter then you're hetero. This picture is the ultimate test for sexuality. No doubt.
All I see is the fact that boy is all sweaty and needs to shave Bleh.
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Old 02-07-2005, 01:37 PM   #126
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** Nevermind me...
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Old 02-07-2005, 08:24 PM   #127
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I thought I might ask..if you're ever interested in getting married some day, and you are able to, what kind of man would you want to marry? What would you want/ expect from marriage?

Sorry if someone has already asked this, I couldn't remember

i certainly hope i want to get married. there are no guarantees, and while i think that gay marriage will be legal in a number, if not a majority, of states within the next 10 years, i know that my chances are smaller (for a variety of reasons) than if i were straight. i think it's a wonderful goal, and it is my goal, but i want to be realistic about these things. i want to have a husband, and adopt a child. but life is strange.

i do fear growing old alone. i look at my grandmother, who i adore beyond words. she's 87, increasingly senile, and my last remaining grandparent. she's in a nursing home, and the only people who really visit her are her children. without children, what do you have when you get old and incapable of caring for yourself? at the end of the day, it is the children who care for their parents, and for whatever reason, no matter how devoted an uncle i might become, i do worry about having the same support network. luckily, i get along well with my brother and sister, and i'm older, so i'll probably go first phew.

what do i want from a husband? you mean other than that he be Jude Law?

hmmmm ... ideally, someone who you can live with, who will let you love them, and will respect you as a person. gay male couples (the successful ones) tend to be very good at backing each other up, being solid and dependable for one another. and also giving the other space. that's important to me -- i think most men need their space, especially the straight ones. given that i have arty inclinations, and can be a bit scattered, i'd probably prefer someone a bit more grounded than i am. really, you're looking for compliments, the ability to funciton as a unit, and i almost see the relationship of two men growing old togther not to be as emotionally intertwined and dependent as a straight couple might be (or, good gosh, a lesbian couple! the levels of emotional intimacy that i've seen lesbians achieve is astounding ... not always in a good way). rather, it is two individual men having decided to be committed to one another on a highly egalitarian level. i think i alluded to this earlier, but i do think gay couples, male and female, provide wonderful egalitarian models for straight couples to perhaps learn from.

but, i do fear growing older. i know we all do, and it's not like i'm a big party circuit boy livinig off a set of well oiled, rippling abs and doing ecstasy at the clubs every weekend. i work hard, and am motivated by much, much more than sex and fun and loud music. many of those (admittedly gorgeous) guys party through their 20s, and then wake up one day and they're 45 and they wonder what the hell happened to their youth and at the mess their lives have become. i know that won't happen to me, but i do fear being alone, and at the end of a particular genetic strand. so this motivates me (sometimes to the point of anxiety attacks) to make absolutely the most of every minute i have on this earth, and to make my "children" my work (i work in TV, and aspire to be a filmmaker).

but it is scary.
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:28 AM   #128
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Ello Irvine do you not think its stupid that alot of straight guys find it hard to admit it when other men are attractive, I mean are they just uncomfortable saying things like that i.e. they think it makes them less of a man lol, I have no problem being complimentary when its due, it just seems daft to me that alot of us find it hard to do so plus a little less serious are scarves a good thing or should I avoid them

I'd just like to make a comment.

I'm a pretty hardcore heterosexual, and believe me I've tried but failed to identify what a "hot" or attractive man is.

If I'm with female freinds and they see a bloke they find hot or attractive, they sometimes say to me "dontcha think he's cute/sexy/hot?" and it's not a case of not wanting to admit that they are hot, but rather not understanding what hot is. I have a vague idea of what a girl might find a hot guy to be like, but I could never identify what one could look like.

I can't help it, i just wish I had understanding, but I've accepted that I don't have any homosexual tendancies.

So it's not always a case of not wanting to admit a bloke is attractive, but instead not understanding what hot is.


Also great thread Irvine.

And I gotta say mate, if you wanna get married to a bloke go for it!

Love is natural

Marriage is not natural, and is a man made idea, that we could all survive without. Ignore bigoted traditionalists and follow your heart.
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:56 AM   #129
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That was a beautiful answer Irvine, I hope you don't mind if I call you a sweetheart

I hope you find everything you're looking for and everything you deserve
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:32 PM   #130
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This has to be one of the best and most respectful threads on FYM, ever. I hadn't had time to read it all til today.

I have several gay friends but it was nice to read your replies without the emotional connections. You seem like a really great person, very centered.

I second Mrs S
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:00 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine



I'd just like to make a comment.

I'm a pretty hardcore heterosexual, and believe me I've tried but failed to identify what a "hot" or attractive man is.

If I'm with female freinds and they see a bloke they find hot or attractive, they sometimes say to me "dontcha think he's cute/sexy/hot?" and it's not a case of not wanting to admit that they are hot, but rather not understanding what hot is. I have a vague idea of what a girl might find a hot guy to be like, but I could never identify what one could look like.

I can't help it, i just wish I had understanding, but I've accepted that I don't have any homosexual tendancies.

So it's not always a case of not wanting to admit a bloke is attractive, but instead not understanding what hot is.


I just find it strange though and I'm just about 100 per cent sure I'm straight as hell. I just wander why other straight guys can't realise when other men are attractive I mean this doesn't mean you have homosexual tendancies at all lol, I just don't get it, I don't know
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:17 PM   #132
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I just find it strange though and I'm just about 100 per cent sure I'm straight as hell. I just wander why other straight guys can't realise when other men are attractive I mean this doesn't mean you have homosexual tendancies at all lol, I just don't get it, I don't know
I don't either, it makes me laugh to think people feel like they may have homosexual "tendancies" if they do.
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:31 PM   #133
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I just find it strange though and I'm just about 100 per cent sure I'm straight as hell. I just wander why other straight guys can't realise when other men are attractive I mean this doesn't mean you have homosexual tendancies at all lol, I just don't get it, I don't know

yeah, i kind of agree.

i mean, there are empirical standards of what is and what isn't considered good looking. example: facial symmetry. i took a social psych class, and they used Denzel Washington's face as an example of one that was nearly perfectly symmetrical. you don't have to be turned on by Denzel, or even think he's sexy, to determine that this is a good looking human being. i wouldn't expect a straight man to react to a good looking man in the way that he reacts to a good looking woman ... it's more akin to appreciating good architecture, i think, or a well-made cabinet or something. to pick a musical example, that while it does nothing for me in any substansive way, i can listen to, say, "bye, bye, bye" and appreciate the meticulous construction of the song without forming any kind of emotional attachment that i do to another meticulously constructed song, like "walk on."

hope THAT doesn't offend anyone ...
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:17 PM   #134
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what do i want from a husband? you mean other than that he be Jude Law?

Amen to that, my brotha.

(Seriously, great post, through and through. Some great thoughts on love and marriage.)
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:25 PM   #135
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maybe we should close this thread?

it is getting harder to hate

the sin(er)

when he appears to be an intelligent, caring, articulate person.

my soul may be in danger.
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