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Old 02-03-2005, 11:33 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muggsy
I have some questions hope I'm not very intrusive..

*have you ever had to deal with a girl who had a crush on you?

* (i don't know how to ask this ): how do you feel when people identify you by your orientation, instead of other aspects of your persona?


1. not that i'm aware of. the only issue i can think of was regarding my best friend -- we always had a bit of a "when harry met sally" thing going on, and i always thought that if i could be straight for anyone, it would be her. we'd slept in the same bed many times, and nothing ever happened. i knew for a while she had a crush on me, but it went away, and we always, always were best friends. then she started dating a guy seriously, but i could tell she was holding back for some reason. i wasn't sure, but i flattered myself enough to think that maybe she thought i would eventually come around and we'd finally start dating (this was before i came out). then when i did come out to her, she said "i had been waiting for you to tell me." now, it looks like the two of them will get married. i'm excited.

2. it's never happened, that i'm aware of. i'm not particularly obvious, and while i never lie i don't feel the need to divulge the details of my personal life in the way that most straight people do without a second thought (nothing wrong with that, btw), and i've said "being gay is the least interesting part of my personality." i have felt a bit of the fetishization that happens, especially with straight females. i remember a party where four girls demanded that i give them a kiss goodnight. the attention is flattering, but would they have demanded the same had i been straight? i doubt it.

i should also add that, psychological toll aside, i've been very, very lucky. i was born late enough that the gay liberation movement (for lack of a better word) had done lots of work by the time i came out; i came out in a post-AIDS=death sentence world; and i happen to be young and educated and from a relatively affluent background (i didn't grow up on 90210, but not too terribly far off). i now live in a major coastal city, and, to be horribly blunt, white. the gay movement is criticized by minorities for being populated by, and thus preoccupied mostly with the concerns of educated, affluent, white men who live in cities. in comparison to gay people who aren't born to such privilege, the social costs of coming out are much, much higher.

it feels horrible to racialize these things, but it's also true. it is very, very difficult to be black and gay, or hispanic and gay, or poor and gay. the reasons are far, far to complex to go into here, but i can in another post.
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:49 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



i would guess that you're a friend, not a hag.
I've certainly never been called a fag hag and don't fit the stereotype but because I do have so many gay male friends I wonder sometimes how I'm perceived. Most of these friendships go way, way back, so it's not like I'm out in the gay clubs looking for new gay friends. My best friend is a gay man and of my other closest friends 3 are gay men, 1 is a lesbian, 2 are straight women, and a couple of straight guys who I know want more from me so it's kinda weird. I think for me one of the reasons why I have so many gay and lesbian friends is because I haven't followed the traditional path of marriage and friends and, frankly, when my straight friends get married, the friendships definitely change (sadly, diminish) over time. But when my gay friends get a new boyfriend or girlfriend, I don't lose a friend, I gain a friend--at least for awhile, while it lasts. So as a single woman with not great luck with relationships, it's my gay friends who have been there all these years through thick and thin, while my straight friends go off into marriage and kids and that whole world and while we try to maintain the same kind of friendship we once had, ultimately it seems that we have difficulty relating to each other's lives.
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Old 02-03-2005, 12:43 PM   #63
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Pepsi or Coke?
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:16 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mrs. Edge


Why would a lesbian who is totally unattracted to men be attracted to butch lesbians who look/act just like men?!? Wouldn't the idea be to be attracted to the most femine of females?
I've never been attracted to "butch" women. Just not my thing. Everyone has different taste. Why do some straight white men only like black females? Some black females only like white men? Why do some females only like big bulking muscular men while some only like lean thin men?

Everyone has different taste. But yes society has divided lesbians into two categories your butch or dike types and your more feminine "lipstick" lesbians. At the end of the day they are still women and that's what's attractive.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Pepsi or Coke?

i really have no preference -- Coke mixes better with rum, but i don't like rum; Coke mixes better with Jack, and i like that.

so, i guess i'd have to say Coke.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:49 PM   #66
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What do you think of the way gay people are portrayed on TV?

For example, Jack on Will And Grace (or Will for that matter) or shows like Queer Eye

I'm trying to think of the other shows I watch w/ gay characters, the only one I can think of right now is Dr. Weaver from ER

Maybe you don't even watch any of these shows anyway
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:53 PM   #67
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...Keith and David on Six Feet Under...
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:08 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
What do you think of the way gay people are portrayed on TV?

For example, Jack on Will And Grace (or Will for that matter) or shows like Queer Eye

I'm trying to think of the other shows I watch w/ gay characters, the only one I can think of right now is Dr. Weaver from ER

Maybe you don't even watch any of these shows anyway

i stopped watching ER in 1996, so i can't speak for Dr. Weaver.

i've only recently gotten into W&G and think the show is a riot, though i think it would be better named "Jack and Karen" because those two steal the show.

i have mixed feelings: it's great to see openly gay characters on TV pulling in huge ratings. at the same time, they're terribly stereotypical. they're kind of effeminate, jack is certainly a nancy-pants (which is fine ... i applaud the acceptance of sissy-boys and showtunes-loving men ... just wish that there was more diversity in the representation of gay men), and while they do go on dates, to my knowledge, there has never been a boy-boy on-screen kiss.

this is kind of a problem. there has been a general acceptance of gay characters, so long as they are gay in ways that straight people understand -- witty, funny, great style, decorating skills, and willing and able to dish out saucy relationship advice to their female friends. the gay man as straight girl protagonist's sidekick has recently replaced the bitter best female friend (think Rosie O'Donnell in "Sleepless in Seattle" ... remember, this was before she was out) as a romantic comedy stock character. again, great to be seen in popular culture as broad acceptance grows and grows -- but it's still representation on straight terms, and without things that might make a straight audience say "ick" -- like two men kissing, or simulating having sex with each other.

all i know is i don't say "ick" when i see straight people kissing (or two women).

what is the big freak-out about watching two men kiss?
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:10 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
...Keith and David on Six Feet Under...

probably the most honest, accurate, true-to-life protrayal i've seen.

you can tell the creator of the show (alan ball, who also wrote "american beauty" with that really straight actor kevin spacey) is gay. it's reflected in the writing, and the situations they find themselves in as they negotiate their way through a relationship that is probably the strongest and most loving on the whole show.
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:19 PM   #70
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Who are your favorite gay heroes of history and literature? Do you like Oscar Wilde?
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:35 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


Everyone has different taste. But yes society has divided lesbians into two categories your butch or dike types and your more feminine "lipstick" lesbians. At the end of the day they are still women and that's what's attractive.
I agree except that there are probably more lesbians than not that do not fit into either category. They may play that role in the relationship but you could not tell by looking at them, who is who. The L Word is a perfect example of this. I don't believe this show correctly portrays lesbians as I know them. Maybe I just hang around in the wrong circles.

I tend to be on the butchy side and my girlfriend is not really femme, although that is what I am attracted to. She is somewhere in this gray area, where I think most lesbians are. In fact, all my partners have been in that gray area.
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:36 PM   #72
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Nice thread idea, Irvine. We've debated certain issues pretty heavily and I've wanted to get to know you outside of all that.

What else do you listen to besides U2?
Favorite movies?
What kind of car do you drive?
How old are you?
Favorite painter?
Favorite book?
What do in spare time?

That should be a good start.
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:46 PM   #73
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These "ask the ____" threads are pretty cool.
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Who are your favorite gay heroes of history and literature? Do you like Oscar Wilde?
love Oscar Wilde, his trial is the funniest thing i think i've ever read (except for the whole being convicted part).

honestly, i don't know that i have gay heroes. sexual orientation doesn't seem to be mentioned much in history, and it's only recently that the words gay and hero could even be part of the same sentence. i suppose if Lincoln were gay, he might count. as for literature ... i can't think of a single "out" gay character in any novel worth mentioning.

there are, of course, many, many gay writers, filmmakers, and artists who i admire, but i was always taught to admire the art and not the artist, so i don't know that i'd consider any of them heroes either. i admired Greg Lougainous (i know i misspelled that) for his diving ability, but not so much for him as a person, as he had a very sad life.

i suppose i admire straight people who are openly accepting of gay people. U2 certainly qualify. and i suppose Michael Stipe might count as something of a "hero." what i loved about both these bands is how non-gender specific many of their love songs are. i never got the machismo from U2 and REM like i do from, say, The Stones, or even Bruce Springsteen (however sensitive he might be). it wasn't so much that i could imagining "one" or "electrolyte" to be from one man to another (though in Stipe's case, it probably was ... same with "leaving new york" which is my current favorite song) but that they lyrics were vague enough for anyone to internalize and understand on your own terms, by your own definitions (and compare this with the specificity of Bruce ... gorgeous, poetic, insightful specificity, but Bruce's lyrics are ultimately limited in what they can do and what they can accomplish by choosing to be about the real and practical).

at the end of the day, my gay heroes are real, live gay men who are older than me who have managed to live lives of dignity and are happy with who they are and where they are going. those are my heroes, real people who are comfortable inside their own skin. they are who i aspire to be.
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Old 02-03-2005, 06:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Nice thread idea, Irvine. We've debated certain issues pretty heavily and I've wanted to get to know you outside of all that.

What else do you listen to besides U2?
Favorite movies?
What kind of car do you drive?
How old are you?
Favorite painter?
Favorite book?
What do in spare time?

That should be a good start.
1. REM, Bruce Springsteen, Radiohead, Lucinda Williams, Elvis Costello, Coldplay, Aimee Mann, Kate Bush, Meshell N'degeocello, Stones, Beatles, Beach Boys, Blur, and many more.

2. this one is hard ... goodfellas, ET, boogie nights, raiders of the lost arc, roger and me, etre et avoir, pulp fiction, being john malkovich, jaws, annie hall, the english patient, the incredibles, in america, the big lebowski. more, i'm sure ...

3. 1994 ugly green Toyota

4. rothko, pollock ... love mid-20th century american ... so much was happening in greenwich village in the 1950s ... what an exciting time it must have been

5. toss up between _Trainspotting_, _All the King's Men_, _Lolita_, and _Atonement_.

6. smoke blue crack, cook (currently obsessed with Indian food), read, blog, take long urban hikes on weekends, go to the movies, long discussions about politics/current events with friends, go to the gym.
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