Ashcroft bans DOJ gay pride event

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BAW

The Flower
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Yet another reason I may be leaving the Republican party this year :eyebrow:



Saturday, June 7, 2003

Ashcroft's ban on gay event gets mixed reaction
Critics say attorney general is backing off promise. Conservatives support him.

By ERIC LICHTBLAU
The New York Times


WASHINGTON ? Democrats and civil-rights advocates on Friday condemned the Justice Department for banning a gay-pride event for employees at the department, and they called on Attorney General John Ashcroft to reverse the decision.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., told Ashcroft in a letter Friday that he found the decision "unconscionable" at a department charged with protecting civil rights, and he promised to propose legislation if the Justice Department did not allow the event to take place.

But conservative groups opposed to gay rights rallied to Ashcroft's defense over an issue that has revived questions about his stance on homosexuality.

A group of several hundred gay and lesbian Justice Department employees, called DOJ Pride, budgeted $600 to hold an awards ceremony on June 18 at the department's Great Hall to commemorate Gay Pride Month. The group held similar events at the department each of the last six years, members said, and Ashcroft's top deputy spoke at last year's event.

But Justice Department officials told the group it could not hold the event at the department this year because of a new policy prohibiting events not recognized by White House proclamations.

President Bush has approved several hundred proclamations, recognizing events like National African American History Month, National Prayer Day and Leif Ericson Day.

But Bush, unlike former President Bill Clinton, has declined to recognize Gay Pride Month, and the White House said Friday that he has no plans to do so this year either.

"The president believes everybody ought to be treated with dignity and respect, but he does not believe we should be politicizing people's sexual orientation," said Scott McClellan, a spokesman. "Beyond that, it's a matter for the Justice Department."

Officials at the Justice Department's equal-employment-opportunity office acknowledged on Friday that the office notified the employee group of the decision regarding the gay-pride event, but they referred all questions to the Justice Department's public-affairs office. Officials there refused to discuss the decision.

Gay associations at many federal agencies have held gay-pride events in recent years. Employees at the Commerce Department and a few other agencies have complained about not receiving enough administrative support, but this is the first time any agency has blocked a gay group from using the premises, said Leonard Hirsch, president of Federal GLOBE, a gay and lesbian association.

"There's a political calculation going on here by the Justice Department, and they figure they gain more with the conservative right than they lose by discriminating against gays and lesbians," he said.

The Justice Department's decision set off quick reaction from groups on both sides of the gay-rights issue.

Ashcroft, a deeply religious man and a social conservative, was known for his strong views against homosexuality during his days in the Senate. He said he considered homosexuality a sin, and he opposed legislation extending hate crimes laws to cover gays.

But during his confirmation hearings in 2001 he pledged not to tolerate discrimination against homosexuals in the Justice Department. Critics said Friday that the decision to ban the gay-pride event amounted to Ashcroft backpedaling from that vow.

Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., noted in a statement Friday that he specifically asked Ashcroft during his confirmation about DOJ Pride's use of government facilities. Ashcroft testified that he had "no intent to treat this group differently than any other."

In his letter, Lautenberg called the decision to block the event "outrageous." Noting that conservative groups have lobbied federal agencies to ban gay pride events at government facilities, Lautenberg said "the possibility that the department would put the wishes of groups with a political agenda ahead of the civil rights of its own employees is unconscionable."

The American Civil Liberties Union charged that the decision could violate the Justice Department's own anti-discrimination policies. A Justice Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity denied that the decision violates any anti-discrimination policies, but the ACLU said it was considering a legal challenge.

"I think Ashcroft has gone out on a legal limb on this, and he's certainly trashed his own personal word in the process," said Matt Coles, director of the ACLU's Gay and Lesbian Rights Project.

But Sandy Rios, president of a conservative Christian group called Concerned Women for America, said "homosexuality is immoral" and added she was grateful Ashcroft had taken such a "courageous step to stand against the pressure of the politically correct elite."
 
I'm disgusted, although not suprised by this. I'm also disgusted that Bush refuses to recognise Gay Pride month - that comment about not making a political point out of someone's sexuality is simply a cover for blatant homophobia. Do we refuse to celebrate Black history month for fear of politicizing 'race'? Do we refuse to allow women to celebrate women's achievements for fear of politicizing gender? Of course not - so why on earth shouldn't lesbian and gay people celebrate Gay Pride month?

BAW - I know I can't try to tell you what political party you should belong to, but I honestly think if you find homophobia offensive then the Republican party isn't the best place to be. Of course I'm not in any way suggesting that all individual members of the party are homophobic, but I do think many extremely influential people in it's leadership (ie Ashcroft, Senator Santorum) are horribly homophobic. In addition that, many of the conservative groups which the Republican party depends on for support are extremely homophobic, and I think that means there is always a tendency for the party to make concessions to their agenda. That's just my opinion though. :)
 
I see Ashcroft got tired of Rumsfeld being at the top of my hated list, so now he's trying really hard to make up the difference.
 
I read that the Greens are actually considering endorsing a Democrat in 2004, which should make a powerful statement about *just* *how* *bad* things are.
 
I've heard that too. As I understood it, they're not planning to endorse anyone during the primaries, but they will endorse the Democratic candidate if it's someone they like. I heard that rumour a few weeks back though, so things may well have changed since then.
 
paxetaurora said:
I read that the Greens are actually considering endorsing a Democrat in 2004, which should make a powerful statement about *just* *how* *bad* things are.

I've read that also. It's called the ABBA party. They will endorse whoever comes out of the convention as the candidate.

Anybody But Bush Again
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
I'm also disgusted that Bush refuses to recognise Gay Pride month
now, I'm not a fan of Bush
but I would have been surprised if he would have recognized it Gay Pride month as it would be total contradictory to the way he seems to think about the gay community

though Bush his point of view on this subject is one that I do not agree with at least he's sticking by it instead of trying to appear more open to homosexuality then he really is

I agree with you though in that I also don't believe that he does this because he doesn't want to make a political point out of someone's sexuality
 
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I think Fizzie is right -- if you don't want to politicize sexual orientation, don't politicize other things then.

As for Ashcroft, I lived in Missouri when he was a senator. During my time at college, students tried to add sexual orientation to the university's non-discrimination clause. It was rejected by the Board of Curators despite a large amount of support from both straight and gay students. The reason they did this was because of the conservative groups in the state and conservative state politicians who threatened cuts in the school's budget. Also, the curators are officials appointed by the governor to represent the tax payers of Missouri. Say what you want about Ashcroft but the guy came to power with votes from ultra conservative right wingers in his state.

That being said, also remember that he lost to a dead guy......
 
Is it illegal to punch the attorney general in the stomach? Because if it IS legal, why doesn't somebody do everyone a favor and......

Wait! I was only kidding. --->

Where are you taking me?! I was only making a point....you know?

Awwwww? Stop hitting me on the head with that baseball bat. This isn't legal is it?

Come on?!?!?! Are you seriously hitting me on the head with a corked bat? ----- How timely is that? (LOL....I mean, ouch that hurts!)

Silence

Silence....

That shut me up!
 
I think if I ever started my own company, I would randomly start firing straight employees. After all, sexual orientation is not a protected status...

As for Asscroft, he's a waste of oxygen and proof that this administration is far from moderate.

Melon
 
I'd love to live in a world that didn't need movements based on race or sexuality. But until that happens, I will always support those who do.
 
It was Adam and eve not adam and steve. Why do u hate him for not recognizing gay day. That sexual practise spreads desease, a normal sexual orientation does not spread desease as much. so that should be an indication on the gay practise. you touch a burning stove you get burned. fuck a guy up the ass you get aids.
if such a practise is so dangerous and let me tell you it is.... then why should it be encouraged. If you want gay day then by all means throw a christerpher lowell party dont depend on the president on everything, do you need bush to wipe your ass too?
 
Where to start....megadrum, a bit of friendly advice when posting in here. If you want to make broad general false statements, first off remove the insults contained in them and then back up these claims with some 'evidence' or at least a source which led you to believe this.
fuck a guy up the ass you get aids.
You surely must see how inaccurate and inflamatory this statement is? Whoever told you is so grossly mistaken. Most of your reply was also off topic. I think if you are interpreting it as an encouragement of homosexuality, then you are missing the point. Please re-read the article and the responses here - It is about recognition.
Your views are your right to have, but think carefully about how you present them.
 
Angela Harlem said:
Your views are your right to have, but think carefully about how you present them.
indeed, Angela Harlem is very nice and explained very well what problems we (mods) have with your post

I on the other hand can be a real bastard and when I think you are just trying to insult the views of other people on this forum I will react in whatever way I see fit
 
I'm going to try and be as nice as I possibly can here, which is not gonna be easy...

megadrum2002 said:
It was Adam and eve not adam and steve.

Must...refrain...from...screaming...and...shouting...

I hate that saying. It's gotta be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard against homosexuality.

Besides, does not the Bible also say something about, "Love thy neighbor"?

Originally posted by megadrum2002
Why do u hate him for not recognizing gay day.

Maybe because that screams homophobia, something we really don't need more of in this country.

Originally posted by megadrum2002
That sexual practise spreads desease, a normal sexual orientation does not spread desease as much. so that should be an indication on the gay practise. you touch a burning stove you get burned. fuck a guy up the ass you get aids.

Like Angela Harlem said, please, enlighten us as to where you got this idea?

Straight people get AIDS just as often as gay people. That's a fact.

Sounds like someone needs to go back and study up on this stuff more.

Originally posted by megadrum2002
if such a practise is so dangerous and let me tell you it is.... then why should it be encouraged.

A, it's not dangerous.

B, homosexuality should be encouraged because it's perfectly normal, there's nothing wrong with being homosexual.

Originally posted by megadrum2002
If you want gay day then by all means throw a christerpher lowell party dont depend on the president on everything, do you need bush to wipe your ass too?

First off, all we're saying is that if Bush is going to recognize various other months and events and all that, then he should recognize this too, because it's only fair.

Second, uh...no, I don't need Bush to "wipe my ass". I just want him to treat everyone with the respect they deserve.

Whew, I feel better now.

Seriously, posts like this just make me :crack:.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Maybe because that screams homophobia, something we really don't need more of in this country.

jesus. why is it always "homophobic" instead of "the right to think it's wrong."
 
megadrum2002 said:
It was Adam and eve not adam and steve. Why do u hate him for not recognizing gay day. That sexual practise spreads desease, a normal sexual orientation does not spread desease as much. so that should be an indication on the gay practise. you touch a burning stove you get burned. fuck a guy up the ass you get aids.
if such a practise is so dangerous and let me tell you it is.... then why should it be encouraged. If you want gay day then by all means throw a christerpher lowell party dont depend on the president on everything, do you need bush to wipe your ass too?

wow, please tell these facts to my friend who works in the STD and AIDs clinic in Atlanta. she is the Adminstrator, Educator, Counsler at this clinic, i am sure she would love to talk to you about how right on you are with these facts. :|

funny most of her patients are straight. go figure. education is the key.
 
Hmm, perhaps nbc. Though I tend to think, if people are prepared to make ignorant and ridiculous statements, be it on their head to reap the consequences of those actions. I think many if not most here would in the least disagree, but as usual, if anyone is more than offended or whatever, please say so.
 
bonosgirl84 said:


jesus. why is it always "homophobic" instead of "the right to think it's wrong."

With Ashcroft it screams homophobia, because that's what he is, a homophobe.

Other people may not like homosexuality, but they would at least recognize this kind of an event, putting their own feelings about it aside.

And I wouldn't yell at those people.

I really am curious, though, as to what it is about homosexuality that makes people still believe it's wrong. Am I missing something here???? I've never had a problem with it, and I'm really curious as to why some people do.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
With Ashcroft it screams homophobia, because that's what he is, a homophobe.

I really am curious, though, as to what it is about homosexuality that makes people still believe it's wrong. Am I missing something here???? I've never had a problem with it, and I'm really curious as to why some people do.

you see? you have no idea if ashcroft is homophobic. do you know him?

i cannot speak for anyone else, but the reasons i have for believing a homosexual lifestyle is wrong are way too personal for me to discuss here.
 
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megadrum2002 said:
It was Adam and eve not adam and steve. Why do u hate him for not recognizing gay day. That sexual practise spreads desease, a normal sexual orientation does not spread desease as much. so that should be an indication on the gay practise. you touch a burning stove you get burned. fuck a guy up the ass you get aids.
if such a practise is so dangerous and let me tell you it is.... then why should it be encouraged. If you want gay day then by all means throw a christerpher lowell party dont depend on the president on everything, do you need bush to wipe your ass too?


Lovely post...its nice to see that ignorance and misinformation are still alive and well. This was NOT about "gay day", this was about a governmental agency that selectivly chooses who gets use of a public facility...an agency that is not supposed to base its decisions on race, gender or sexual orientation. Mr. Ashcroft's personal views have no place in the decisions he makes while Attorney General...neither do the President's. Mr. Ashcroft has admitted in the past that he DOES have a problem with homosexuality...not exactly a wonderful quality for someone entrusted to protect civil rights.

As far as your rant about "the spread of disease," you need to check your facts. STD's and HIV AIDS don't care if you're gay, straight, male, female, young or old.

Wh do you blame for the MILLIONS of women and children suffering from a "gay disease" like HIV/AIDS?

from a CDC study:

1). HIV infection is the third leading cause of death among all U.S. women aged 25-44 years and the leading cause of death among black women in this age group (2). Moreover, an estimated 7000 infants are born to HIV-infected women in the United States each year (3); without intervention, approximately 15%-30% of these infants would be infected
 
megadrum - ignoring the hate-filled ranting at the start of your post, perhaps you could provide some evidence in support of your statements. For instance, if AIDS is only spread amongst gay men, perhaps you could explain why women are also affected by AIDS, or why it is so prevalent in countries in sub-Saharan Africa?

You should probably also note that our discussion was primarily about John Ashcrof, the attorney general and not about President Bush.

bonosgirl - you say you should have the right to "think [homosexuality] is wrong" without being described as homophobic. Can you explain how that works, considering that we would dismiss as nonsense statements like "I'm not racist, I just don't like Black people" or "I'm not sexist, but women are inferior to men."
 
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