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Old 03-22-2006, 02:38 PM   #16
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How hypocritical to trumpet a "Diversity Day" but close it down when you lose control of the message. I thought speech was the best counter to speech.


hardly.

the promotion of "ex-gays" is designed precisely to counter the existence of the diversity of sexual orientation. "ex-gays" are trotted out to tell people that, really, there isn't such a thing as sexual orientation, just a deviant sexual desire that can be corrected through prayer.

putting an "ex-gay" on the same platform as a gay person is akin to telling a black person that their skin color is simply a figment (a pigment?) of their imagination, and it has about the same intellectual merit as comparing evolution to creationism.

there are also no claims made by "ex-gays" to be a part of any sort of subculture or group in the US -- in fact, what is an "ex-gay" but a straight person? chances are, 95% of the school is straight, what is the value of trotting out an "ex-gay" who's presentation would be, most likely, overtly religious in nature -- since not a single member of the APA would ever condone reparative therapy for homosexuality, nor would they ever encourage someone to change their sexuality, and the "ex-gay" movement is 100% Christianist in its origins -- and who's presence would do little to provide both exposure to the larger world of sexual diversity to the straight masses as well as a small measure of comfort to the terrified gay kids who have to live each and every day in the terribly heterosexist world of high school.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:43 PM   #17
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Now, we won't know what they planned on saying, so the characterization of what they were going to say is your own.


here's what they would say: http://www.exodus-international.org/
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:43 PM   #18
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If this was an open forum of ideas I would agree with you, but this a day to celebrate the differences we have, not to tell any of these different groups that they are wrong.
Just to be clear, it is a day to celebrate some of the differences we have.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:46 PM   #19
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Just to be clear, it is a day to celebrate some of the differences we have.


yes, some of the obvious differences we have -- their obviousness is due to the degree to which society has traditionally used such differences to erect socially exclusive barriers between groups, and your average freshman could tell you what those are: race, religion, ethnicity, gender, and sexual orientation.

i think it's cutting off your nose to spite your face to say that, "well, since we can't talk about our different hair color, then we have no place talking about racial differences."

and "ex-gay" groups are there to celebrate nothing but their "freedom" from homosexuality.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:59 PM   #20
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Just to be clear, it is a day to celebrate some of the differences we have.
True they could have included neo-nazis, KKK, polygamists, wiccans, etc...
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:28 PM   #21
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The problem is that these people who want in were commonly considered "fringe" until fairly recently. Now they are mainstream because they have a representative in the White House. And they want to denounce a whole group of people. That's an attack on diversity itself, something the event is supposed to celebrate.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:18 PM   #22
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And they want to denounce a whole group of people.
Again, that is a strawman argument to justify exclusion. Paint the agenda in the most damning way possible and you can feel better that you've excluded them.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:27 PM   #23
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Again, that is a strawman argument to justify exclusion. Paint the agenda in the most damning way possible and you can feel better that you've excluded them.
Kinda like the strawman arguments that "christian" groups use to deny homosexuals inclusion in their churches?
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:38 PM   #24
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Again, that is a strawman argument to justify exclusion. Paint the agenda in the most damning way possible and you can feel better that you've excluded them.
The whole purpose of the event is to promote toleration of differences. But these people don't want to accept certain differences. Why should they be included? I agree with melon, by the same logic you would have to include the Ku Klux Klan.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:40 PM   #25
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Again, that is a strawman argument to justify exclusion. Paint the agenda in the most damning way possible and you can feel better that you've excluded them.


no, that's what they do. look at the signs and language. they say, "i am proof that you can change/you don't have to be this way."

the existence of an "ex-gay" is absolutely crucial to the religiously-informed supersititon that homosexuality arises through bad parenting (weak fathers, overbearing mothers) and that there is no such thing as a "natural" homosexual.

it is deliberately antagonistic.

"ex-gays" are used to attempt to refute everything that has been written and said about the origins and nature of homosexuality by the medical community -- that homosexuality is 100% involuntary, a large component of it is genetic, that no one chooses to be gay, and that being gay is not a disorder. the "ex-gay" movement/manipulation seeks to refute those facts. this is a very clear-cut case of pitting theology against science.

ask yourself this: would the "ex-gays" have asked for "inclusion" at the event had there not been gay speakers?
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:13 PM   #26
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So, are you claiming that the person who is an "ex-gay" was not a real homosexual in the first place?
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:23 PM   #27
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i do not think a mere school needs to have this gigantic thing where e-v-e-r-y group that is out there has to speak. for chirst's sake.. it is a school trying to have a day where some people speak about the most present diversity issues.
sure, not everyone can come, but that is normal. it is not a national official kinda thing. As for the question of wh y canceling it all:
fighting and arguing with everyone goes a bit over the top of what a school has to organize for a day that is supposed to give students the opportunity to hear some voices. You cannot include everything and educate everyone in a day anyways.
Gay people where not allowe din the St Patrick's Day parade... no prob. But a friggin school will get sued for exclusion. Alone the agressive behavior / threat towards the school gives fat minus points. In the end the students loose and nothing gets done.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:10 PM   #28
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So, are you claiming that the person who is an "ex-gay" was not a real homosexual in the first place?


no, i'm claiming that an "ex-gay" is still a homosexual living in sad denial and a victim of religious abuse.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #29
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, are you claiming that the person who is an "ex-gay" was not a real homosexual in the first place?
First off, you miss the point. You don't put in people opposed to diversity in a diversity event. If Christians wanted to come up and talk about themselves in a completely neutral manner--like the Jews, Muslims, blacks and gays--I would have had no problem.

The trouble is, Christians aren't there to talk about themselves; they're there only to berate one of the other groups at the event. Period. Christians, in this case, are no different from the average schoolyard bully or garden variety racist or anti-Semite. The KKK is freely allowed to believe what it wants, but I'm sorry...they're never going to be invited to a diversity event. And likewise, if Christians cannot tolerate diversity and are only there to berate one or more of the members there, then they're not welcome.

When Christianity has something grown up and mature to offer to the table, then let's hear it. But if its going to pout and moan like a petulant child, then it can continue to sit in the corner and take a time out.

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Old 03-22-2006, 11:33 PM   #30
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Funny, it seems as if there has been plenty of opportunity to berate the so called "ex-gay" individual. Shout him down and keep him from speaking.

Sounds just like the actions you complain of.
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