Army of God/"Christian Terrorism"

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Salon published this excerpt from an essay about Clay Waagner, a "Christian terrorist" convicted of murder for killing a doctor who performed abortions. Wondering what y'all thought of this.

You can read the whole essay here:

http://www.armyofgod.com/MatthewKachinis.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In "The Quiet Fall of an American Terrorist," Frederick Clarkson rightly identified Clay Waagner, Eric Rudolph and James Kopp as Christian terrorists. In the article, Ellie Smeal, the president of the Feminist Majority Foundation, notes that "the investigative work that would lead you to the next one [Christian terrorist] is falling short" and that there are people still at large "who aided and abetted Kopp and Rudolph." Does Mrs. Smeal mean to put in jail all those who believe in and/or acted upon the defensive-action doctrine? This brings the prediction of the conspiracy theorists one step closer to reality.

The federal Department of Justice's "war on terror" will be waged against not only Muslims in foreign nations, but also Christian terrorists in our homeland. Both the Holy Bible and Koran condemn baby murder and homosexuality as capital crimes, and the radical elements of both religions are willing to do more than talk to resist the societal promotion of these crimes. While the foreign terrorists resist the imposition of the U.S./U.N. charter, which promotes "population control" (abortion) and "diversity" (homosexuality), the domestic Christian terrorist simply resists the law of the land, which promotes and often subsidizes abortion and homosexuality.

"There was a time in 2001," notes Clarkson, "when for the first time in history three of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted criminals were antiabortion domestic terrorists." What a sad commentary this is! The days of womb children murderers being found on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list is over. We have devolved. Indeed the wicked should be terrified of good men. Unrepentant baby murderers, sodomites, adulterers, man stealers, pedophiles, rapists and the like should indeed cringe in the shadows at the presence of a God-fearing man, even as they would cringe before Jesus, because they are to act as his body on earth, receiving him as their Governor.

I have heard it said that Christian terrorist Clay Waagner did some things wrong during his 10-month reign of terror and that he does not deserve hero status because he was a bank robber and a car thief. But it should also be noted that this bank-robbing, car-thieving terrorist is directly responsible for saving the lives of 5,000 innocent babies. What great things have brother Clay Waagner's detractors done to qualify them to stand in judgment of his deeds? Prudence would suggest we leave his wartime actions for God to judge and give honor to whom honor is due -- and for those who don't believe a war is going on, it's only because you don't hear their screams. Chalk up another hallelujah and a hip, hip, hooray for the Christian who terrorized the entire nation's abortion industry without firing a shot.

"How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers." Isa 1:21 (KJV)

The wicked civilian and the federal government appear to be co-conspirators in their coup to overthrow Christ and his people. For the most part the wicked are no longer terrified of the God-fearing man. Those blessed few that actually do terrify the wicked are vigorously denounced and punished by the government "of the people." I often weep over the persecution of the Christian terrorist in this country, for their oppression accomplishes three goals. First, it comforts and strengthens the wicked. Second, it discourages the would-be Christian terrorist from action. Third, it makes the Christian terrorist feel alone in his cause.

Most of the time when I leave the killing place my self-esteem diminishes, as I have failed where others have succeeded. Pleading, politics and pandering have done precious little to stop the holocaust against the innocent. But the Christian terrorist is not so inadequate. Dead abortionists don't kill babies, and a fire-bombed death camp can no longer facilitate the holocaust against them.

As cream rises to the top, so the Christian terrorist rises above the huddled masses of churchgoers and the many voices that denounce their violent attempts to defend the innocent from their murderous assailants.


-- Chuck Spingola
 
it's one of the biggest problems I am with some aspects of christian culture...ultra conservative christians anyhow who continually point to "an eye for an eye"...or the wrath of God in the old testement

it's scary what people will do in the name of God.

Lately I've read a lot about Jesus in both christian and secular sources and more than ever in my life I have grown to love that guy!!
Nothing short of amazing.
I read one article saying that Jesus was a feminist, and it is probably true, especially for the time he live in.

and he was incredibly forgiving and caring...no wonder so many people loved him to death and others hated him to death, literally.

the point is, christians are supposed to live by the example of Jesus. He didn't condemn the prostitues, the adulterer, or the murderer...he offered them help or hope.

for all the bad rap Christians have gotten, I surely hope none of it has rubbed off on people perspective of Jesus cos if everyone was like him this would be a perfect world
 
Wonderfully said...

Two often horrible act's have been committed in the name of some religion or God.. Those who believe in th ultra wrath of God thought..

First of all God is about love... secondly God does not need our help.. he wants us to help each other .. thus the Golden Rule
" Love thy Neighbour"

As I man named Bono once said I have not lost faith in God, just a little in religion and the church..

Also it so bothers me how these extemist whatever they are .. to often blacken the eye of christianity .. there is much more examples of good then the bad fortunately in the world.. Bono would hate to be used as an example .. but I believe one of the finest examples of a humanitarian..

The story of jesus itself is very humbling .. from his birth in the manger to his last moments .. to his sacrifice. Unfortunately to often people take scripture to literally ( like an eye for an eye) and they loose the moral behind it ..

I would never claim to be a good example of chistianity but I do attempt to live up to "Love thy neighbour " as the golden rule .. and i try to live in a way that is in step with what god has blessed.. somedays are better then others for me .

Johnny Cash ( a great man) said this " You get up every day and you either chose love , or you chose hate"

But yes it is scary what people will carry out in the name of God
I don't understand it and god lord willing I never will..
 
I agree, it scares the heck out of me what people will do in the name of Jesus. I am a Christian. We are supposed to be as much like Jesus as is possible. That means loving, forgiving, and helping, not condemnation, and certainly *not* killing. These people represent Christianity about like Osama bin Laden represents Islam. Eric Rudolph is on trial right here in Birmingham for blowing up an abortion clinic. I vividly remember the day of the atrocity.
:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Basstrap said:
it's one of the biggest problems I am with some aspects of christian culture...ultra conservative christians anyhow who continually point to "an eye for an eye"...or the wrath of God in the old testement

it's scary what people will do in the name of God.

It sure is. God has got to be pretty upset with some of his followers right now.

It's like a person I knew said once: "I honestly think God's a good person. He just has very bad PR people."

Originally posted by Basstrap
Lately I've read a lot about Jesus in both christian and secular sources and more than ever in my life I have grown to love that guy!!
Nothing short of amazing.
I read one article saying that Jesus was a feminist, and it is probably true, especially for the time he live in.

Really? That's an interesting theory.

Originally posted by Basstrap
and he was incredibly forgiving and caring...no wonder so many people loved him to death and others hated him to death, literally.

the point is, christians are supposed to live by the example of Jesus. He didn't condemn the prostitues, the adulterer, or the murderer...he offered them help or hope.

Exactly right (man, he has an easier time forgiving a murderer than me...:reject:...).

And that's what pro-lifers need to be doing, instead of judging these women who have abortions (until they're in these girls' shoes, or imagine themselves in their position, who are they to harass a girl for making that choice?), or going and blowing up the clinics (yeah, uh, way to stand by your pro-life beliefs, morons :rolleyes:...).

Even though they personally do not support abortion, they need to be willing to help these women through whatever tough times they experience.

Originally posted by Basstrap
for all the bad rap Christians have gotten, I surely hope none of it has rubbed off on people perspective of Jesus cos if everyone was like him this would be a perfect world

Indeed. I also agree with Katey and verte (you remember the day of that bombing, eh? :tsk: :(...)

Angela
 
i heard a piece of a wolf blitzer year in review special on a local ottawa all news radio station (580 cfra, cnn affiliate). amidst his recaps of the war on terror and captured terrorists, eric rudolph was described as a 'suspected serial bomber'.
i had to chuckle.
 
Blacksword said:
Gotta love how the word terrorist is in the large limited to people who aren't white.

That's right. Why in hell's name don't Europeans have to go through the same security procedures in our airports that people from other continents go through? Eric Rudolph is white, needless to say. The "Shoe-Bomber", Richard Reid, is a Brit. There are terrorist cells in Europe and most people in Asia, Africa, etc, etc, are not terrorists by any stretch of the imagination. This policy doesn't make me feel safer. Dammit, take out the exemptions and keep *terrorists* out of here, not Muslims or Arabs.
 
verte76 said:
That's right. Why in hell's name don't Europeans have to go through the same security procedures in our airports that people from other continents go through? Eric Rudolph is white, needless to say. The "Shoe-Bomber", Richard Reid, is a Brit. There are terrorist cells in Europe and most people in Asia, Africa, etc, etc, are not terrorists by any stretch of the imagination. This policy doesn't make me feel safer. Dammit, take out the exemptions and keep *terrorists* out of here, not Muslims or Arabs.

Exactly.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Even though they personally do not support abortion, they need to be willing to help these women through whatever tough times they experience.

True. I'd have a lot more respect for certain pro-life groups if they spent a little less of their time standing outside family planning clinics waving graphic posters at anyone who passes by, and a little more of their time actually offering alternatives to women who are considering having an abortion.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:


True. I'd have a lot more respect for certain pro-life groups if they spent a little less of their time standing outside family planning clinics waving graphic posters at anyone who passes by, and a little more of their time actually offering alternatives to women who are considering having an abortion.

Actually, for every group waving their graphic signs, there are dozens of ministries designed to assist women who have unplanned pregnancies.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
True. I'd have a lot more respect for certain pro-life groups if they spent a little less of their time standing outside family planning clinics waving graphic posters at anyone who passes by, and a little more of their time actually offering alternatives to women who are considering having an abortion.

Yeah. And since they insist on adoption, maybe they could offer to adopt when the woman has her baby, or they could recommend some good family friends of theirs that she could give the baby to, or things like that. Much more effective.

Angela
 
Well the pro-life movement is famous for missing the ball. Back when abortion legislation was first being debated back in the 70's I think, a compromise was proposed to allow limited abortion, such as in teh case of rape victims and where the mother's life was threatened etc. Well the hardliners shot this down and as a result we have the ridiculously liberal abortion laws of today where they are often given out like candy with no counciling or mention of alternatives ot the common psychological fallout. Had the radicals in the pro-life movement been a bit more flexible, millions of aborted fetuses would be living breathing humans today, that is on their heads.
 
Blacksword said:
we have the ridiculously liberal abortion laws of today where they are often given out like candy with no counciling or mention of alternatives ot the common psychological fallout.

If I am not mistaken, in most states, counseling and/or waiting periods before an abortion are mandatory. I know in my state, Pennsylvania, a woman seeking an abortion must be given counseling about the effects of abortion and abortion alternatives, and there is a 48-hour waiting period. I would hardly call that "given out like candy."

Also, there have been studies done that reflect the fact that million of American women live more than fifty miles from ANY women's health care provider--not only doctors who perform abortions, but also doctors who could prescribe contraceptives and offer alternative forms of family planning, as well as attend to such routine care as yearly pelvic exams. Again, hardly seems tantamount to "given out like candy."

I'll say no more on this, but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?

Thanks.
 
paxetaurora said:


I'll say no more on this, but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?

Thanks.

Yes. No religion is immune. All religions have their fanatics that reach beyond any basic teaching of their religion and try to play the role of God themselves.

Terrorism doesn't always come in the form of a suicide bomber in fact it doesn't always come in the form of violence. Anyone who uses fear and threats (of any sorts) to gain something for their beliefs, is a terrorists.
 
paxetaurora said:
but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?

There are a few nut cases out there like Clay Waagner. I am not sure his repugnant activities fall in the classic definition of "terrorist" (act of violence to instill fear in the general public); but for the sake of vilifying his behavior, the label fits. He likely has little effect on the Christian mainstream other than a rejection of his beliefs and methods.

I also sense a political aspect to the label - one designed to temper reaction to the acts of "Islamic terrorists".
 
nbcrusader said:


There are a few nut cases out there like Clay Waagner. I am not sure his repugnant activities fall in the classic definition of "terrorist" (act of violence to instill fear in the general public); but for the sake of vilifying his behavior, the label fits. He likely has little effect on the Christian mainstream other than a rejection of his beliefs and methods.

His actions are clearly designed to instill fear into the public, or at least anyone who has any involvement, or ay possible future involvement, in the abortion industry. Pretty clearly a terrorist act.

nbcrusader said:


I also sense a political aspect to the label - one designed to temper reaction to the acts of "Islamic terrorists".

Would labelling a Christian a terrorist temper reaction to Islamic terrorists or elevate reaction to Christian terrorist acts? It really isn't fair to only pin the "terrorist" label on Muslim exremists when America has it's own, while limited, very real terrorist threat from within. I'm curious as to why you would think that anyone would want to temper reaction to acts of Islamic terrorists.
 
Personally, I agree with the people who say that terrorism doesn't have a religion. Some terrorists may officially be members of a religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism...........all of these religions have produced people who committed violence in the name of their religion. But can a terrorist honestly be a Christian? We're not supposed to kill and it's just plain wrong to intimidate and condemn. Can a terrorist honestly be a Muslim? Islam is a religion of friendship and peace. People like OBL are "hijacking" it. Can a terrorist honestly be a Jew? Their religion also forbids killing and destruction of property. Can a terrorist be a Hindu? They're not allowed to practice acts of violence either. Violence is against the spirit of all of the great religions of the world. They don't mix.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Yes. No religion is immune. All religions have their fanatics that reach beyond any basic teaching of their religion and try to play the role of God themselves.

Terrorism doesn't always come in the form of a suicide bomber in fact it doesn't always come in the form of violence. Anyone who uses fear and threats (of any sorts) to gain something for their beliefs, is a terrorists.

Very well said. Absolutely right.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Yeah. And since they insist on adoption, maybe they could offer to adopt when the woman has her baby, or they could recommend some good family friends of theirs that she could give the baby to, or things like that. Much more effective.

I don't think it has to be limited to personal involvement like that, it could include such things as providing housing for pregnant women who aren't able to live in their own home for some reason (ie their parents won't allow them to live at home while they're pregnant, or they don't have a safe home to live in), or helping women to pay for maternity clothes or just offering them a chance to talk to a counselor about their pregnancy. Obviously helping a woman to find an adoptive family for her baby if that's what she chooses would be another practical way of helping her though.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
I don't think it has to be limited to personal involvement like that, it could include such things as providing housing for pregnant women who aren't able to live in their own home for some reason (ie their parents won't allow them to live at home while they're pregnant, or they don't have a safe home to live in), or helping women to pay for maternity clothes or just offering them a chance to talk to a counselor about their pregnancy. Obviously helping a woman to find an adoptive family for her baby if that's what she chooses would be another practical way of helping her though.

Exactly. I didn't mean it to say that it should just be limited to that stuff-you're absolutely right, those are many other great things that they could do for the girl.

Angela
 
I think verte made a great point--that a phrase like "Christian terrorist" or "Muslim terrorist" is, at its core, a contradiction in terms.

:up:
 
paxetaurora said:
I think verte made a great point--that a phrase like "Christian terrorist" or "Muslim terrorist" is, at its core, a contradiction in terms.

:up:

Agreed, a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

As to the abortionthing, it varies from region to region. SOme areas are owrse than others. Plus the stories of people who have multiple abortions in a small space of time hardly intill confidence in teh system. Heck even as far back as when I was born (1982) it was one of the first options the doctor brought up. My parents were older and one of the first things he suggested was to abort me as there was a possibility I'd be deformed (my parents were 38, and in the light of women 40+ having children the guy was on crack, not to mention the fact teenagers have a far higher instances of birth deformities than older women). Now saying this to a couple who had tried hard to have a kid didn't go over too well, nor can you imagine this story makes me feel hunkey dory about some doctors. Don't mean to highjack the topic but I just thought IO should clarify, I did over generalize.
 
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