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Old 01-07-2004, 04:42 PM   #16
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Well the pro-life movement is famous for missing the ball. Back when abortion legislation was first being debated back in the 70's I think, a compromise was proposed to allow limited abortion, such as in teh case of rape victims and where the mother's life was threatened etc. Well the hardliners shot this down and as a result we have the ridiculously liberal abortion laws of today where they are often given out like candy with no counciling or mention of alternatives ot the common psychological fallout. Had the radicals in the pro-life movement been a bit more flexible, millions of aborted fetuses would be living breathing humans today, that is on their heads.
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Old 01-07-2004, 04:59 PM   #17
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we have the ridiculously liberal abortion laws of today where they are often given out like candy with no counciling or mention of alternatives ot the common psychological fallout.
If I am not mistaken, in most states, counseling and/or waiting periods before an abortion are mandatory. I know in my state, Pennsylvania, a woman seeking an abortion must be given counseling about the effects of abortion and abortion alternatives, and there is a 48-hour waiting period. I would hardly call that "given out like candy."

Also, there have been studies done that reflect the fact that million of American women live more than fifty miles from ANY women's health care provider--not only doctors who perform abortions, but also doctors who could prescribe contraceptives and offer alternative forms of family planning, as well as attend to such routine care as yearly pelvic exams. Again, hardly seems tantamount to "given out like candy."

I'll say no more on this, but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?

Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:15 PM   #18
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I'll say no more on this, but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?

Thanks.
Yes. No religion is immune. All religions have their fanatics that reach beyond any basic teaching of their religion and try to play the role of God themselves.

Terrorism doesn't always come in the form of a suicide bomber in fact it doesn't always come in the form of violence. Anyone who uses fear and threats (of any sorts) to gain something for their beliefs, is a terrorists.
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:35 PM   #19
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but ask you all to attend to the main point of this thread: is there such a thing as "Christian terrorism"? What is its effect on politics? on the Christian mainstream?
There are a few nut cases out there like Clay Waagner. I am not sure his repugnant activities fall in the classic definition of "terrorist" (act of violence to instill fear in the general public); but for the sake of vilifying his behavior, the label fits. He likely has little effect on the Christian mainstream other than a rejection of his beliefs and methods.

I also sense a political aspect to the label - one designed to temper reaction to the acts of "Islamic terrorists".
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:52 PM   #20
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There are a few nut cases out there like Clay Waagner. I am not sure his repugnant activities fall in the classic definition of "terrorist" (act of violence to instill fear in the general public); but for the sake of vilifying his behavior, the label fits. He likely has little effect on the Christian mainstream other than a rejection of his beliefs and methods.
His actions are clearly designed to instill fear into the public, or at least anyone who has any involvement, or ay possible future involvement, in the abortion industry. Pretty clearly a terrorist act.

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I also sense a political aspect to the label - one designed to temper reaction to the acts of "Islamic terrorists".
Would labelling a Christian a terrorist temper reaction to Islamic terrorists or elevate reaction to Christian terrorist acts? It really isn't fair to only pin the "terrorist" label on Muslim exremists when America has it's own, while limited, very real terrorist threat from within. I'm curious as to why you would think that anyone would want to temper reaction to acts of Islamic terrorists.
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Old 01-07-2004, 08:47 PM   #21
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Personally, I agree with the people who say that terrorism doesn't have a religion. Some terrorists may officially be members of a religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism...........all of these religions have produced people who committed violence in the name of their religion. But can a terrorist honestly be a Christian? We're not supposed to kill and it's just plain wrong to intimidate and condemn. Can a terrorist honestly be a Muslim? Islam is a religion of friendship and peace. People like OBL are "hijacking" it. Can a terrorist honestly be a Jew? Their religion also forbids killing and destruction of property. Can a terrorist be a Hindu? They're not allowed to practice acts of violence either. Violence is against the spirit of all of the great religions of the world. They don't mix.
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:59 PM   #22
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes. No religion is immune. All religions have their fanatics that reach beyond any basic teaching of their religion and try to play the role of God themselves.

Terrorism doesn't always come in the form of a suicide bomber in fact it doesn't always come in the form of violence. Anyone who uses fear and threats (of any sorts) to gain something for their beliefs, is a terrorists.
Very well said. Absolutely right.

Angela
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Old 01-07-2004, 11:00 PM   #23
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I just plain hate extremism.....
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Old 01-08-2004, 04:05 PM   #24
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Yeah. And since they insist on adoption, maybe they could offer to adopt when the woman has her baby, or they could recommend some good family friends of theirs that she could give the baby to, or things like that. Much more effective.
I don't think it has to be limited to personal involvement like that, it could include such things as providing housing for pregnant women who aren't able to live in their own home for some reason (ie their parents won't allow them to live at home while they're pregnant, or they don't have a safe home to live in), or helping women to pay for maternity clothes or just offering them a chance to talk to a counselor about their pregnancy. Obviously helping a woman to find an adoptive family for her baby if that's what she chooses would be another practical way of helping her though.
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Old 01-08-2004, 04:10 PM   #25
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I don't think it has to be limited to personal involvement like that, it could include such things as providing housing for pregnant women who aren't able to live in their own home for some reason (ie their parents won't allow them to live at home while they're pregnant, or they don't have a safe home to live in), or helping women to pay for maternity clothes or just offering them a chance to talk to a counselor about their pregnancy. Obviously helping a woman to find an adoptive family for her baby if that's what she chooses would be another practical way of helping her though.
Exactly. I didn't mean it to say that it should just be limited to that stuff-you're absolutely right, those are many other great things that they could do for the girl.

Angela
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Old 01-08-2004, 06:26 PM   #26
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I think verte made a great point--that a phrase like "Christian terrorist" or "Muslim terrorist" is, at its core, a contradiction in terms.

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Old 01-08-2004, 09:17 PM   #27
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
I think verte made a great point--that a phrase like "Christian terrorist" or "Muslim terrorist" is, at its core, a contradiction in terms.

Agreed, a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

As to the abortionthing, it varies from region to region. SOme areas are owrse than others. Plus the stories of people who have multiple abortions in a small space of time hardly intill confidence in teh system. Heck even as far back as when I was born (1982) it was one of the first options the doctor brought up. My parents were older and one of the first things he suggested was to abort me as there was a possibility I'd be deformed (my parents were 38, and in the light of women 40+ having children the guy was on crack, not to mention the fact teenagers have a far higher instances of birth deformities than older women). Now saying this to a couple who had tried hard to have a kid didn't go over too well, nor can you imagine this story makes me feel hunkey dory about some doctors. Don't mean to highjack the topic but I just thought IO should clarify, I did over generalize.
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Old 01-09-2004, 11:16 AM   #28
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I just plain hate extremism.....
You and me both. All forms of extremism disgust me.
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Old 01-09-2004, 02:17 PM   #29
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You and me both. All forms of extremism disgust me.
Ditto.

Angela
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Old 01-09-2004, 02:24 PM   #30
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You and me both. All forms of extremism disgust me.
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all forms
Technically, that is an extremist point of view
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